Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Joe Hubbard]

How many of you guys practice palm stick techniques in relation to using your locking folders as self defence weapons?  I personally see it beyond just a self-defence concept, but perhaps a way of buying seconds in order to get the folder open while my survival clock is ticking.  This could be interesting guys!

Peace Through Greater Fire Power!

Joe

[szorn]

Good question, Joe.

I teach palm-stick / pocket-stick quite a bit, specifically as it relates to improvised tools. I do include it as part of the folding knife tactics. However, I always emphasize that the student must be legally justified in deploying a knife, even if they intend to use it in a non-lethal fashion. Some people seem to think that if they deploy a folding knife and use it as a pocket-stick that it won't be considered a lethal-force tool. Knife makers have now even gone so far as to make folding knives specifically designed to be used as pocket-sticks.

I do agree with you though-  if the use of a knife is justified we can use it as an impact weapon tool in order to buy enough time to open it for more effective use.

Steve

[Professor]

Good question, Joe.

I teach palm-stick / pocket-stick quite a bit, specifically as it relates to improvised tools. I do include it as part of the folding knife tactics. However, I always emphasize that the student must be legally justified in deploying a knife, even if they intend to use it in a non-lethal fashion. Some people seem to think that if they deploy a folding knife and use it as a pocket-stick that it won't be considered a lethal-force tool. Knife makers have now even gone so far as to make folding knives specifically designed to be used as pocket-sticks.

I do agree with you though-  if the use of a knife is justified we can use it as an impact weapon tool in order to buy enough time to open it for more effective use.

Steve

less-than-lethal is probably better term than non-lethal.  In the US, this will typically move an incident from assault charges to aggravated assault charges if you are not legally justified to defend you self with that level of force....   

Is this the same application if I had a gun in my hand or a roll of quarters or a steel pipe, or a cane, or a.....?


Jeff

[argyll]

less-than-lethal is probably better term than non-lethal.  In the US, this will typically move an incident from assault charges to aggravated assault charges if you are not legally justified to defend you self with that level of force....   

Is this the same application if I had a gun in my hand or a roll of quarters or a steel pipe, or a cane, or a.....?


Jeff

Well having a gun in your hand maybe a separately chargeable offense, where as just having a closed folder in your hand may not be a crime.  Likewise, a steel pipe maybe considered an illegal weapon per se, depending on the circumstances and jurisdiction, where as a normal cane would not. 

The bottom-line is that striking a person with any blunt object may lead to a charge of assault with a deadly weapon, but that does not mean you can not claim self-defense.  As with everything else the key element will be whether the force used was excessive (and how good a lawyer you have )

Best regards,

Argyll

[Alex]

Hey Joe!  Given that i work in the law enforcement arena, I'm constantly concerned about "force" in general.  I constantly train with the short stick; clock training, impact, stress quick draws, etc.

less than lethal strikes can turn vey quickly into lethal ones by a mere slip or error(i.e. oooops! didn't mean to strike your temple, sir, I was intending to hit your chest area).  I try to practice these frequently because I'm always training for long and short ranges.

Some considerations I have found with using Charming Cheapies; they sometimes break or seize from the impact and you cannot get them open if you have to escalate to lethal force.

[Professor]

less-than-lethal is probably better term than non-lethal.  In the US, this will typically move an incident from assault charges to aggravated assault charges if you are not legally justified to defend you self with that level of force....   

Is this the same application if I had a gun in my hand or a roll of quarters or a steel pipe, or a cane, or a.....?


Jeff

Well having a gun in your hand maybe a separately chargeable offense, where as just having a closed folder in your hand may not be a crime.  Likewise, a steel pipe maybe considered an illegal weapon per se, depending on the circumstances and jurisdiction, where as a normal cane would not. 


Best regards,

Argyll

Sorry, Forgot to say that I can legally carry concealed....

[Hock]

The palm stick / closed folder

Hock

[Southpaw]

I frequently train this aspect of knifework. One of the most important and yet overlooked aspect of using a folding knife in combat is deployment. I don't care what you've got, be it in your trunk, safe, pocket, holster, etc if you can't get the damn thing out and into your hand in a usable grip, you're just playing with yourself.

Drawing a closed folder and then striking with it is a great way to either off balance your opponent and/or get the position, distance, and time to open the blade if necessary. I've found that with many folders, after striking with them pocketstick style the best way (best=read "economical, speedy and secure") is to use the thumb opening and go into a forward grip edge up. Utilizing this grip has a shorter count of movements in that you don't need to re-orient the edge, which leaves you with a rather tenuous grip on the knife.  FGEU has other interesting capabilities while fighting, but the best aspect is speed and security of blade deployment.

One knife I have that works excellent as a pocketstick is the Emerson CQC7. Feels good in the hand, has a somewhat symmetrical design that allows a secure grip, and it opens quickly and securely.  Hammerfists, edge of hand blows, reverse hammerfists all work great with the knife closed in the fist. Adding a lanyard adds another layer of security that you should experiment with as well.