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An old fashioned rag mop.

3 (13.6%)

A pool cue.

8 (36.4%)

A large book.

0 (0%)

Your own knife.

4 (18.2%)

A holstered handgun but with your assailant now within twenty feet of you.

7 (31.8%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: October 01, 2006, 03:38:38 PM

[410indashade]

Okay, the voting has closed and a grand total (drum roll please) of twenty-two votes were cast.  The votes were immediately sealed in an earthenware jar kept under the back porch at Funk & Wagnalls for safekeeping.  But knowing like I do that interest in the results would keen indeed!  I paid the accounting office of the aforementioned firm to count them first.  Realizing in my genius like way that I did not have enough fingers and toes.  For the reading impaired Hock has kindly provided us with a perty chart the relevance and meaning of which is anybody's guess.     

[arnold]

Genius like way?!! This guy must have seen the super secret book. Another one gets it. One down, more to go

[arnold]

Also, maybe when Hock returns from his latest trip/adventure in search of rare show tunes, he can find the picture he took of my hand when it was slashed by a knife. 27 stitches and a staple or 2. Ring finger of left hand is still numb after 7 years. Keeps left handed nose picking down to a minimum. It goes with the 9 stitches and 2 staples they used to reattach my right ear that Hock removed for me. I guess he didn't like the way my glasses fit at the time. Now they line up perfectly. Damn, do I look good!

[usks1]

You didn't pay attention usks1 the scenario specifically states "within twenty feet."  I know I can do it(just) from the draw or from the table at eighteen to nineteen feet any closer and it gets into a wrestling situation which is problematic at best.  Have you tested yourself do you know at what distance you can draw and fire on average taking the three best times out ten with live rounds or sims.  I'll bet most of you don't.

Sorry guys, been gone for a few days....

410,
I understood the question, but I am not gonna stand there and let the 21 feet become a wrestling situation. Draw and move as best you can to continue to make distance and keep making distance while firing looking for things to put between you and him. Keep firing...

We don't do a lot of clock style timing on scenario drills, but we do spend quite a bit of time drawing, firing, finding cover, moving toward and away from the target while shooting..

There is no doubt that at least a certain % of the time this may turn into a hand to hand type of situation. But I would still rather fight him after I dumped a couple of rounds into him.

Or have Carl trip him while he is lapping up the beer.... that will buy me more time..   

[Nick Hughes]

It's coming down to a holstered pistol and a pool cue.  (the mop is a poor man's pool cue...same range but with the off setting head on the end and generally poor quality wood)

The problem with the pistol...and I don't care if you train or not is that within 21 feet his momentum will carry him on to you even if he's hit (all things being equal ) As the Brits found out fighting the Zulu, bullets don't stop momentum (only in Hollywood)  Pool cues on the other hand do and they also offer the huge advantage of reach over his knife (assuming here he's not wielding Excalibur)

You also have to take into acount that, by the time you realize he has a knife, and he's attacking that you have to get the gun from the holster, (does it have retention features which must be manipulated?), disengage the safety [unless you're smart enough to carry a Glock] and get rounds down.  The pool cue is already in your hands, has no retention features, no safety and, even if it breaks during the fracas, can still be used.

I'm sticking with the pool cue.

Nick

[JimH]

quote Nick
"The problem with the pistol...and I don't care if you train or not is that within 21 feet his momentum will carry him on to you even if he's hit (all things being equal ) "

Yes,Yes,Yes,very good point,especially if one is firing a .38 or a 9 mm,the knife Swinging attacler will get you even if you hit them.

quote Nick
"The pool cue is already in your hands, has no retention features, no safety and, even if it breaks during the fracas, can still be used."

Again good point,the weapon(the pool cue) is at the ready and provides length advantage and provides a Great deal of blunt force trauma.
Hold that knife to the rear and the stick  will open your head or crush the side of your neck.
Stick that knife out and The pool cue will crack the fore arm bones (ulna and radius)

The pool cue can also be used  with two hands to parry,thrust,jab,and replicate a butt stroke.

If the stick breaks now there is a jagged instrument to stab and thrust to cause penetration.

Within 21 -31 feet give me the Pool cue.

[usks1]

You know guys... I gotta agree with you.

Even though I would still love to shoot any SOB who pulls a knife on me, just on principle alone.

I think we can say the pool cue is the winner.

But....

How about Nick knocks the shite out of him with the pool cue, then steps back out of the way, and then we shoot the SOB?   


Alright I'm done... 

Good poll though...

[Professor]

You guys are nuts.      Give me the handgun!   

I want something that WILL end the fight.   "within twenty feet." or "within five feet"  I'll take the show stopper.   

I need only sidetep/pass/block/attack once....

I'll end the fight on the second step.   Can you be assure on each of the other option?

An old fashioned rag mop.    (if you have the distance)   
A pool cue.                       (if you have the distance)
A large book.                     (if you're lucky)
Your own knife.                  (if you get close enough)
A holstered handgun but with your
assailant now within twenty feet of you.  (if you can keep from contact or retrieve space)


And no whimpy caliber.....give me a 5" gov. model with 230 grain slow moving .45.


You're all nuts.   That's the reason I'm driving.

[Nick Hughes]

Prof has slipped over to the loony left...I knew a right wing Prof was too good to be true.

You say providing you can keep from contact or provide space but the Tueller drills proves again and again that you can't (yes, it was an eye opener the first time I tried it to).

With the pool cue it doesn't matter if I'm backed into the corner of a pool hall or if I have room to manouvre.  The gat is only going to be of any use assuming you can make the recommended off the line movements.  If you can't, you're screwed.

Your licence has been revoked...I think Arnold should drive.  Any man who can handle an Italian motorbike can surely get us there safely in a bus.

Uncle Nicky

[usks1]

Well, now that all this has been said... Let's look at reality. ( At least from my side of the bus )

 - I don't spend much time in pool halls anymore, and when I go in a bar I don't have a gun, and it is a long nite in the iron bars motel if I take it in there.

 - Outside I don't usually have a pool cue with me, so it would have to be an improvised weapon of some sort

 - The one thing I usually have on me at all times is a blade, and my empty hand skill....

So... Regardless of what might work best, I train the things that I have at my disposal, and if I end up facing someone with a blade, it will probably be a blade on blade, or empty hand vs the blade situation...

Of course after I throw the hot coffee, the beer bottle, the ash tray, and hit ths SOB with a chair..

[arnold]

I get to drive! Wow, thanks Uncle Nicky! As for all of this back and forth stuff that's been going on in this latest chat, here's my opinion. Which of course as you know is the only one that really matters.
We can take every type of situation under the sun and debate all day, but in the end alll that really matters is if you'll be able to find your seat on the bus and get back to your re-runs of Warner Bros cartoons, or the 3 Stooges.
Been through the 21 ft drill and have managed every time to hit the approaching victim at least twice every time. Is this the answer, depends on the situation. If Uncle Nicky ran at you with his North Dakota dancing shoes on, ( his ass kickin shoes) you might be able to hit him with a few rounds, emphasize might.
Could you get out of the way of above mentioned attacker as his , as I'm told, oversize ass lands on you even after taking a few hits? Maybe. who knows. The problem as I see it is that people debate for a probable situation when the real answer is, arm your ass to the teeth. I know the professor is. I know I am. And besides, since I now get to drive ( wooo hooo) he has time to polish ammunition and sharpen his knife.
So many situations that we cannot come up with the perfect sceanario. So let's just all get on the bus and head to Uncle Nicky's neck of the woods, have some North Carolina BBQ, drink good booze, and shoot paint ball guns at land manatees. Oh hell, now some of you knuckleheads will want to debate the type of paint ball gun.
And speaking of guns, bought the high pont in 45 acp yesterday. Yes I know it's a piece of crap, but I put 200 rounds of assorted ammo through it with out a hitch, didn't even clean it out of the box. Would I bet my life on it? Hmmm. I'll keep it in my desk at work, right next to the new chapter of the Super Secret book I'm working on.
As for being able to handle Italian motorcycles, Uncle Nicky is exactly right. I dear readers can handle anything. Wether it's retarded fat people at Braums, you knuckleheads on the forum, or the bozo's that I deal with on a day to day basis.

[Professor]

F*ck off!!!!   Get back in your seats.  I am the driver -- most of you have not ridden with Arnold. 

I have....believe me.....get him back in the seats.


Now on a serious nut.....


The question is what would you use?    Not, what would you recommend to others.   

I have a lot of options, and there is a lot of "it depends" in this poll.   410indashade is about a half load off on this poll and the short bus crew is willing to jump in the shallow water.

I can play havoc with a knife, but, I prefer to get distance and a distance weapon. 


Sit down
Shut up
and hang on (yes, the straps help)

The (InCharge) Prof

[arnold]

Once again the Professor has stepped to the forefront and told us what we need to do. And besides, the short bus doesn't handle well with the tire pressure at 150 lbs. Just can't get it to slide like a dirt track motorcycle.

[usks1]

F*ck off!!!!   Get back in your seats.  I am the driver -- most of you have not ridden with Arnold. 

I have....believe me.....get him back in the seats.


Now on a serious nut.....


The question is what would you use?    Not, what would you recommend to others.   

I have a lot of options, and there is a lot of "it depends" in this poll.   410indashade is about a half load off on this poll and the short bus crew is willing to jump in the shallow water.

I can play havoc with a knife, but, I prefer to get distance and a distance weapon. 


Sit down
Shut up
and hang on (yes, the straps help)

The (InCharge) Prof

That settles it..... I am in the back of the bus with a shotgun..... Professor can drive thru most of the trouble, and I am gonna sit back and drink Jack & Cokes, and wait till he tells me to start shooting.

[arnold]

And I'll pick out the targets for ya! I'll have time now that I'm back in the jump seat, or the navigator or as I like to call it, the Gunners Seat!