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[JimH]

Many of the British Forces exposed to Eastern Martial arts,(Jap slapping/WWII type combatives), around the 1980's seem to have only kept some techniques and have continued the use of Milling,(Boxing with throw downs allowed) as the main stay art,which WILL DEFINATELY create a fight mind set.

It was also called Jap slapping because most in the British Forces are exposed to boxing,closed fist fighting and the Techniques  used , of the Eastern Martial arts,like the mostly Jujitsu based techniques used open hands ,edge of hand strikes,Palm heel strikes ,which on lookers said looked like slapping.

I got exposure to Milling when training with the British in the mid 70's
I got exposure to what they called Jap slapping when working with the British in the 1980's and most didn't care for the Jap slapping they prefered Boxing/Milling with some kicks and knees allowed, lol

[Hock]

So...given all the listed names and we all know that almost all of these people have had to change and evolve what they were teaching....

Is that 1980s, even 1990s fervor for and of the perfect, tauted "WW II Combatives" - the entity - kind of, well, fallen off the horse? Evolved off the horse?

As an aside, most of the canceled emails I mentioned a few posts back came from Kary's people. He didn't have that many and all their emails are dead that I knew. I don't try to reach Kary himself  as he was impatient, cranky, testy and short with me in the past. Perhaps I derserved that? His email could be fine. His people's emails that I knew are dead.

And without trying to be controversial AT ALL! I will say that the Gung Ho folks I knew told me years back, and I quote - "Kelly McCann brought Bob Kasper kicking and screaming into Modern combatives." I am not trying to cause a shitstorm about this at all, and I like Bob Kapser and all, but this I thought was an interesting statement as it concerns this WW II, evolution process we are talking about here. These guys also thought the world of both Kasper and McCann. They had no agenda.

Hock

[Mick Coup]

Many of the British Forces exposed to Eastern Martial arts,(Jap slapping/WWII type combatives), around the 1980's seem to have only kept some techniques and have continued the use of Milling,(Boxing with throw downs allowed) as the main stay art,which WILL DEFINATELY create a fight mind set.

It was also called Jap slapping because most in the British Forces are exposed to boxing,closed fist fighting and the Techniques  used , of the Eastern Martial arts,like the mostly Jujitsu based techniques used open hands ,edge of hand strikes,Palm heel strikes ,which on lookers said looked like slapping.

I got exposure to Milling when training with the British in the mid 70's
I got exposure to what they called Jap slapping when working with the British in the 1980's and most didn't care for the Jap slapping they prefered Boxing/Milling with some kicks and knees allowed, lol

To further clarify, 'milling' isn't any type of fighting system at all, but a test of fighting spirit and tenacity - nothing more.  Just one or two minutes of all out aggresssion, wearing boxing gloves and restricted to punching only, no defending or holding, that resembles windmilling in application - hence the name.

In actual fact, you'd be heavily penalised for even trying to employ some form of trained skillset during a milling bout - they don't want to see techniques, or even tactics, just can you go for it and keep swinging under fire.

However, even though it isn't actually a fighting system of any sort, I'd rate someone's chances of using this approach over and above most over-designed 'super-systems' in existence!

Mick

[Crafty]

Aggression is a key fact in any fighting method, mental or physical milling makes sense thanks for the explanation mick i used to always wonder why they would stand there and beat the shit out of each other.

[whitewolf]

As to the part of punching straight instead of using large arcs-much more wise to do this
its quicker-you reach the target faster and more power when one strikes.

I have noticed some MMA guys punching with large looping strikes at my school i share-they are not doing to well in the ring- a pro boxer here tried to tell them what they were doing is not good-but the team coach did not want to here it.

oh well-WW

[JimH]

Here are some clips :
British Paras Milling
and
Krav Maga forms of milling (for WW)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgoP37DVNSs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHi1ekrF9Qg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T5aSibexjU&feature=related

When I was in the US Marines we did a milling/boxing with gloves on
One on One and two on one
We also had Pugil sticks
One on one,two on one and three on one bouts

When I did the Royal Marine Commando course in 1976 we did Milling,after basic boxing classes and we were allowed to cup the opponents head and throw or trip them to the ground,sometimes you were allowed to continue on and attack when the opponent was on the ground,all depended on when the PTI said stop,lol.

[whitewolf]

JimH-
1st vidio-appeared that the shirtless soldier was one hell of better boxer-
2nd and 3rd vidio-made me feel great- KM all the way-
The first one reminded me of smokers i was in in the Marines -lots of swinging and lots of blood----
I dont know if they hold smokers any more do you know ?
I have been taking some lessons from a pro boxer lately-he really works on the basic of jab while steping forward-bringing the back foot up-planting it and throwing the power punch with the right-also works on jab,then throw it out there as a block and come over it with a right cross .
stay safe-WW

[Hock]

yeah well...from "American Rough and Tumble Fighting" on up and all around. I've seen and/or been a part of the same kind of thing, especially when testing people and getting ready for tests. As any vets with us reading this can atest too. These shows...The ol' Fight Quest show seems to always end in this kind mass kick boxing attack. Or so many of them do?

The small stables idea in Quantico was good because there was no room to move, just had to stand firm and duke it out.

You know Whitewolf, you really need to be certfied in Krav, as you just seem to extra love it so..."KM all the way!"...seriously, just say the word and I can set you up and it really won't cost you thousands at all.

Hock

[whitewolf]

Hock ill call you soon on that offer-i appreciate it-and learning from you-WW

[Hock]

"...and learning from you."

Oh, don't worry about me. Everybody is learning from everybody. If you got a dream, go do it.

Hock

[Richard Sackville]

If I remember correctly, jap slaping as I heard it used was slang for CQB. At least that’s what was posted on the section timetables (CQB). However I should think that each unit may or may not have called it something else.

All the ex soldiers I know use the slang term and seem show the same basic stuff. Either way it's far from just an elite thing as the best person I saw teach it from the pioneer corp and they dig trenches etc.

I understand that today in the brit army, jap slapping has slipped off the training sheet but again that's only what current serving soldiers have told me down the pub.

Shame really but good for me as I can bring out my "classical jap slapping" DVD with my book.

Regards

Richard

[Canuk]

That first solider in the first video really did miss the entire pont of the exercise I think, he was two worried about getting hit. I think the point is you KNIW your going to get hit and do it anyway.

The KM didnt thril me, (sorry WW) nothing my dear old Dad show teach me starting from age 10. That crazy chick and her merry band of pussy whipped losers pissed me off and didnt do her any favours by the way they cowered at her every move. On the second video with the "real life" attacks it seemed to come down to the usual punch kick stuff. I Watched the knife vidoe one also, were she was saying that you needed to know KM to defend against a bomb blowing up a bus, must be a female Jim Wagner.

Ahhh never mind me, I'm feeling a little bitter today

[whitewolf]

i was reading over the posts-this is for theardri-if you take KM-ask to see who they are affiliated with and let me know-i have a few contacts in europe and can give you my humble opinion on the organization- there are a lot out there not to good

if they spend a lot of time on high type kicks-not to good at all
see if they do a lot of cardio first before the actual tactics
can the cardio exersises be used as part of a tactic -not just jump around aimlessly?
do they push the stdent to pay 3-5000 $ to get a ranking? enough said on that one...

stay safe  whitewolf (elb) "speed of light"- yes and getting faster each day-(in my mind)
 

[Hock]

For more....

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,6738.0.html