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[JimH]

wrong thread
Sorry

[Hock]

Easy mistake.
Although my ego is bruised that you have mistaken this big, bad-assed thread for the other big, bad-assed thread.

Thunderless,
Hock

[mleone]

While Krav maybe good or not good to some. I think its irrelevant at this point.
I think its more about business practices. When your an agressive lawyer that hunts people down based on the name of the system using "Krav Maga". Then you have a fear of losing your purity like many other systems. It becomes "Advertising Blasphemy" In essence it doesnt say much for the system but it does show alot of Character Insecurity. Now I have heard good things and bad things. I wouldnt not train with a krav person. They may learn something from me and vice versa. But why is the ethics of LA Krav business contantly challenged by others? Basically it seems to me that Krav was the "In Crowd" "In Town" thing to do.. Then when it was threatened by Moni It brought out LA Kravs true colors. So why all the litigation? You dont see me briniging a law suit against other people that use the word combatives? Even though emersons Lawyers have. Yes people sue for everything these days. Its quite sad, they lose memberships and money. Then retaliate. I have seen Monis stuff and its pretty good granted its very jiu jitsu like. But his Background is JiuJitsu. But it was good stuff.

Why was the system heads named still signed on certificates after he passed away? Shady Practices? I think so.
The proof in the pudding here in this forum, isnt from a website or any idle gossip. Its people that I know of who had problems with LA Krav. When people start speaking about their experiences and their negative, then a bad word travels far.

When people have a good experience tell 3 people or more.
When they have a bad experience they tell 50.

So while Darren is defending himself, the people who have lost money from investing in that system are also defending themselves by not associating themselves with KM any more. They have lost alot of money.. Why? Did people see right through the material as the latest fad? Did they just not like Krav? Was it designed to reach the fitness crowd?  Who knows.. But the school owners have suffered lossess just like Darren has.

But usks1 your questions are valid. Lets shed some light on the subject.

[JimH]

Krav maga has the tools and they train them well and they train hard.

My thing with Krav Maga,as put out and sold by Darren Levine is that what he sells and teaches is not and was not the Military form of Krav maga and to sell what you teach to civilians as the art made Famous in Daily encounters in a war zone is Fraud.

The Krav being sold by Levine,is Physical fitness by use of a Martial art,a step up from Tae Bo,though krav Maga people do get to exchange with others.

The Liability factor,especially as set out by a District attorney of taking the attacker down and continuing to strike,hit and pummel them after they are down and out is extreme.

The Numbers of Levine krav Maga people looking for other outlets is what is bothering Levine.

At the Moni Aizik and Arvi Nardia seminars there are at least half of the Groups who attend or more who are Levine KM people looking for something else.

When you talk to them,they tell you they want a more freer style of working rather than a preplanned method of doing things,step 1 leads to step 2 to step 3 on and on.

They want to be able to use less strikes on entry,less boxing, and enter and end the confrontation and get out of there.

I can see Ryan wanting to defend his art,I end up doing the same on other forums for my art.

Ryan,if I have the right one ,runs a KM Regional Instructors school,one of Five authorized.
He has a Traditional Background with several Balck Belts In Kenpo and Karate and he was looking for something else,more street usable and he went with KM.
His school focuses on various arts that complete a circle of skill as found in MMA.

I applaude his sense of honor to his art,he taches it and believes in it.

As said the art provides the tools,I just disagree with the way Levine has set about to sell it,and his attempts  to deny Israeli Veterans and Senior People in KM the right to teach it as he feels he owns it is a joke.

These attacks to Levine end up spilling into the art and over to people like Ryan who like what they do,wjich is not fair.

Any training which provides the tools is good,the Mindset and intent of delivery are up to the participants.

[Ryan]

Well, I won't bother addressing most of this, since it's the same old stuff that seems to surface with you guys a few times a year.  For whatever reason, the masses here seem to derive some sense of joy by revisiting the same old tripe every few months.  To each his own, I suppose.

To usks1, Nick asked for my opinion on the other KM topic, and I thought it may seem a bit disengenuous to post there and not here.  I've posted on other topics, though it's obvious the majority here can't see beyond their filters, and seem to thrive on trying to tear down others.  Again, to each his own. 

I draw from and teach from a variety of different styles, systems, and instructors.  I'm quite open-minded in my training and what I offer my students.  I've opened up my facility to Nick on more than one occasion, though, technically (I suppose), we are "competitors".  I respect Hock for his background and instruction, and I suppose it's my fault for expecting a bit more from him than the typical internet bashing that's so prevalent these days.

Anyway, all the best.

[Hock]

And all the best to you, Ryan.
Don't stop popping up here!

Ryan runs a succesful, multi-system school in North Carolina

Hock

[juszczec]

Frankly, I find the whole Krav lawsuit(s?) indicative of what's wrong with MA instruction in the West.  Never mind the people that could be helped if all of the involved parties simply taught and let the market decide, nope gotta protect my market share.

I gotta tell ya, all this just confirms I made the right choice by keeping my day job and not teaching for a living.  Hats off to those of you who do.  But I don't know how you put up with it.

I'm still trying to get past the idea of a lawsuit that is trying to protect what at least one Israeli on a different forum told me is a common phrase.

[Ryan]

Thanks, Hock, I still hope we will get to meet and train together some day.  If my earlier posts were offensive, I apologize.  I suppose it's a bit of the "say what you want to about me, but leave my family out of it" syndrome.  Take care.

[Hock]

If my earlier posts were offensive, I apologe

Naaah.
You know what? I've been shot at. After that not much gets to a feller.

Hock

[cgonzales]

for the record, it was not me that shot at Hock

[redcap]

If my earlier posts were offensive, I apologe

Naaah.
You know what? I've been shot at. After that not much gets to a feller.

Hock

Nice closer Hock.  Reminds me of an old saying we used to use, 'Hey, I was in the Army. I've been fucked around by professionals.  You amateurs don;t worry me!" 

As for KM, this Levine character seems to give the rest a bad name.  Here in Australia I know several very in-tune martial artisits and instructors who now teach one of the many versions (Commando, Tactical, Kapap, Haganah and plain old KM) and I can;t imagine them signing up for BS.  I just don;t think any of it deserves the hype but then if you described it as "The same simple, effective material you have known for decades and lots of other people teach but with an Israeli angle..." I guess it wouldn;t sell as well.

I wonder if Mr Levine and TRS will ever join forces?  I read some of the bio's and would have dismissed them all as wankers except Hock made a video with them at some stage and I know he didn;t write that bio!  Except maybe at gun point. 
 
Cheers, Redcap

[Hock]

Levine would never associate with TRS.

My episode with TRS was 8 years ago? 7? 6? Hell, I can't remember.
I was second-to-last of the big budget productions. Big ads in all the big magazines.
Nice paycheck. Nice studio. Royalties.
As I recall, the bio they wrote was not too outlandish.
It was a hit and run job.  In and out. They never spoke to me again. Me, them. I think I must have pissed them off very quickly. Don't know? Barnhart and Randy Roberson came out.  Mike Gillette was like...my agent on the deal. He handled everything from the very idea, to the start, to the finish, like a professional agent! I showed up, did the gig and flew to Austrailia the next day, in fact. 

But remember when George Clooney played Batman and George said, that he felt like he ruined the franchise? Maybe me and the next big budget guy kinda' did for TRS ? It was all downhill for TRS after that, martial arts wise, anyway. The ads were short, the pay next to nothing. No perks.  They still do well in fitness films, golf all kinds of how-to films. But now they only do about two martial arts films a year.

I will not have anything to do with them, not them me. They got real crazy. The prison guys and This Lt X thing they run now? Well, don't get me started on all that bullshit.

Also, Mark Hatmaker DESPISES them. I don't exactly know why, but the hate runs deep. Not everyone is knucklehead that has been with them. For example...Hatmaker is a class act, good guy. Me? maybe I am a knucklehead and a bit of a wanker. Its hard to view the big picture from my twisted perspective. Things get a little foggy down here in the swamp grass.

But, If TRS did a Krav deal, they wouldn't go to Levine? They would find some far outsider and call him the Desert Fox. He would be the ultimate Israeli commando, up one in the next super secret level above all these krav maga people, the top secret Krav Maga - Nagon.  Yeah!

You heard it here first folks!
Hock

[Trainer]

One of my old sayings was "ive been beat up by the best...and you aint it!"

[redcap]

The Bio is better than many, just not the same style as your own on this web site, hence I figured it was an "In-Out" job as you described.  I guess in a market of 300 million plus people there will be enough who eat that style of marketing up for breakfast.  The important thing is that you got paid, you presented your material and customers got what they paid for.  Its a bit like I write a novel and it ends up on the shelf of the same bookstore that sells dozens of trashy pulp fiction books and a few other literary gems.  Cheers Redcap

[Bri Thai]

Naaah.
You know what? I've been shot at. After that not much gets to a feller.

Now this attitude is what internet forums really need.  Too many people get all personally ofended if you disagree with them!

In fact I would love to use it as a sig line....  but I have never been shot at.  Yet!