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[Joe Hubbard]

Hi Sharif

Welcome to the forum!  Hope to see you at the next Killshot tourney in April!

Best

Joe

[PUMA pete]

Hi all,

I am showing some techniques with knife/daga and would love any comments...

http://disfocusid.ifitsa.com/E-Lesson_Index.html

the general website is :

Triangle-Fan.com

make note there is a menu system at the top which will allow you to easily navigate through the site... if you miss it... well, then navigation is not possible.

my take on this forward or back issue is to keep the blade in reserve... either at one's leg or side/hip... when the secondary weapon... when main weapon then at center close likely with other hand hiding behind it.  imagine making a tight fist  in front of your nose and then placing the left hand between the face and the fist... elbows in.

PUMA pete

[Professor]

Hi all,

I am showing some techniques with knife/daga and would love any comments...

http://disfocusid.ifitsa.com/E-Lesson_Index.html

the general website is :

Triangle-Fan.com

make note there is a menu system at the top which will allow you to easily navigate through the site... if you miss it... well, then navigation is not possible.

my take on this forward or back issue is to keep the blade in reserve... either at one's leg or side/hip... when the secondary weapon... when main weapon then at center close likely with other hand hiding behind it.  imagine making a tight fist  in front of your nose and then placing the left hand between the face and the fist... elbows in.

PUMA pete

Welcome to the Forum....I couldn't open the page that you provided....

[KAVU]

I think you should be comfortable using the knife in whatever orientation you wind up.

In the simplest case, you have Up Grip & Down Grip and then you have the option of Edge In or Edge Out, assuming a single edged knife.

If the grip is in my hand, I know where the tip is, regardless of anything else. Given that, I prefer to focus on thrusting as the 'normal' way to use a knife and slashing as an 'extra'.

Forward or Back is really only a factor when you are talking about knive vs knife and that is a training artifice more than a realistic defensive situation.

[reality_fighting]

lets see here...  knife forward or knife back?   I got one answer for that one,  "neither"!   
the most effective, practical position you can possibly be in ,  in that particular moment in combat(whatever that may be)  is the correct response, or stance.....if you want to call it a "stance".    done....end of topic. 

Dave Santapaola

[seanross]

Here's my take:

Knife on knife dueling, long range:  Saber grip, knife forward
Knife vs. unarmed, long range:  Saber grip, knife back
Knife vs. knife dueling, grappling range or on ground:  Reverse grip (knife fwd and back loses some meaning in grappling range)
Knife vs. unarmed, grappling range:  Reverse grip
Knife vs. Impact weapon, long range.  Saber grip, knife back
Knife vs. Impact weapon, grappling.  Reverse grip

[szorn]

It seems to me that people get too fixated on stances and body positions when they should fixate on tactics and strategies. It's not any one movement that determines the outcome of the situation, it's the mind-set and the knowldege of tactics. It's the totality of circumstances that will determine your body positioning. As several of us have mentioned, no position is right for every situation all of the time, the situation will dictate this. As an example, take some of the positions that Sean posted above and try them out during chaotic training. See how many times you end up stabbing yourself while using a reverse grip, especially during close combat or grappling. Maybe the situation dictated that you had to use reverse grip, however, if there was a choice (which there likely won't be) you might opt to use a saber grip instead. Regardless, with proper training you will determine the strengths and weakness of all positions in most situations. You will also quickly learn that if your are ever in a real knife altercation, you would much rather be somewhere else than in any "position" close to the attacker, it's still a bad situation.


Steve

[seanross]

My list wasn't intended to be a 100% thing.  In the knife sparring I have done, those are the general rules that have tended to work for me.  I have found that during knife ground fighting, I couldn't really do much in saber grip; I just kept losing the knife or getting it trapped on the ground.   In reverse grip, I find that I can more consistently carve my sparring partner up.

Same thing with stand up knife dueling.  Nearly every time I try reverse grip at long distance vs. a knife, I get my hand carved up.   With saber grip, I tend to do the carving.

I certainly wouldn't stay in a grip that wasn't working for me just because it was on my list.

szorn>>"It seems to me that people get too fixated on stances and body positions when they should fixate on tactics and strategies. "

In my experience, tactics and strategy grow out of position.  Different options open up depending on where I am relative to my opponent.  I think most fighters tend to try to work to the sides and behind their opponent - better options open up as you move around your opponent.  On the ground, same thing,  side mount is better than mounted on guard and mount behind someones head or on their back is better than a side mount.  The options available change with position.

Now, if you mean whether I am in a climbing or cat stance, then I tend to agree.  Stance changes so quickly that it just isn't the driving factor that relative position is.

[szorn]

Sean,

I wasn't specifically picking on your list or saying it was wrong, I was essentially saying for people to train with all of them and figure them out as you did. basically find what works for them in the same given situations.

Actually, I wasn't refering to a specific "stance" but body positioning as whole. As mentioned the situation will dictate positioning. As an example, people who always advocate a knife back stance may run into trouble if cornered, against multiple subjects, etc. In such a case knife forward may be a more suitable option. As Hock points out there are about 6 body positions that we must understand, so we can effectively flow through the situations adapting as needed.

In my experience, tactics and strategy grow out of position.  Different options open up depending on where I am relative to my opponent.  I think most fighters tend to try to work to the sides and behind their opponent - better options open up as you move around your opponent.  On the ground, same thing,  side mount is better than mounted on guard and mount behind someones head or on their back is better than a side mount.  The options available change with position.

I agree to a point. The definition of the term 'tactic' may differ from instructor to instructor. The act of neutralizing the subject's vision is a tactic for me. I don't care how the goal is achieved. Examples, I might use my fingers, a ball-point pen, an elbow, sand, a knife, spit, hot coffee, etc. etc. In knife fighting, one tactic is to neutralize the subject's ability to get oxygen. This could be accomplished a number of ways from attacking the trachea, the lungs, or even the arteries. If we focus on tactics rather than specific positions or "techniques", it opens up more awareness and a greater ability to flow or adapt.


Steve