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[Hock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78YRO4M_vp4

Here is a clip from the wildman /madman Leo Gaje of Pekiti Tersia. Now, granted, they are "putting on the dog" because of the TV show...(they have wrestled water buffalo for this episode of the show)

Hock

[nightronin]

"Leo also likes his students to bend at the knee kiss his ring.

He created the Dog Eaters (stick fighters) of Pekiti Terisa in direct threat and hostility toward the Dog Brothers. In the late 1990s there was a SERIOUS, threatening war between them. "

I havent heard about this kissing his ring deal.

Strange he would have beef with the dog brothers. Erik and Denny where students of pekiti tirsia.

strange.....strange....behavior

[Hock]

In....1996? 97-ish? 1998?

There was a huge blow-up between Leo and well, almost everyone else. There were these hateful emails sent everywhere claiming that if you did not train in the Philippines, in particular the Negros Isalnd, you were "nothing" in the FMA. (of course Dan Inosanto himself has never been to the Philippines, but his name was not mentioned)

"We are the dog-eaters, we will eat the hearts out ....." targeting the Dog Brothers, but also attacking EVERY FMA person in the USA.

I was not part of the tiff, because I HAD trained on the Negros Island. I was passed printed versions of these long, rambling and psychotic and hateful remarks. It was clear that the Dog brothers and then other American based FMA people like Bill McGrath, were targets of these wild threats and hate mail. There was talk of death in these emails!

Anywho...Dog Brother "founder" Erick Knauss - who is just a super guy and had at that time "retired" from the "original" Dog Brothers - stepped up and tried to smooth all this over. There was some kind of truce. Erick was kind of surpirsed and dumfounded by all this. I was told that this truce involved sending some of the group to the Negros to train (which translates to money for Leo) But, since this very lukewarm truce...Leo still clung to his nick-name dog-eaters and then the "Pit Bulls" stick fighters, you might hear mentioned today.

There was no truce for Bill McGrath of New York State. He is still the subject of much hatred by the group. I was glad for Bill to leave the group because the group, and Leo, was/is pretty incorragable to deal with.

There are worse stories that ring-kissing. I think these ring-kissers wait until they appear before just the right, submissive crowd. Richard Bustillo is another known to have his ring kissed.

Weird.
Hock

[nightronin]

"Anywho...Dog Brother "founder" Erick Knauss - who is just a super guy and had at that time "retired" from the "original" Dog Brothers - stepped up and tried to smooth all this over. There was some kind of truce. Erick was kind of surpirsed and dumfounded by all this. I was told that this truce involved sending some of the group to the Negros to train (which translates to money for Leo) But, since this very lukewarm truce...Leo still clung to his nick-name dog-eaters and then the "Pit Bulls" stick fighters, you might hear mentioned today."

From what i have seen of Erick he is a skilled individual that can hold his own. Strange that i have seen posting where Leo talks about Erick stating he has good skills.  I think there are several groups that do use the pit-bull name.

"There was no truce for Bill McGrath of New York State. He is still the subject of much hatred by the group. I was glad for Bill to leave the group because the group, and Leo, was/is pretty incorragable to deal with."

It does seem that Bill McGarth gets no rest from those that do pekiti tirsia. What do people think of his skill, knowledge and understanding of what he learned from Leo?

This whole ring kissing thing is the type of stuff that make me ashamed i have interest in the arts.

[Hock]

in the late 80s, guys like me and Denny and McGrath were all just starry-eyed, young punks compared to the big players, all sniffing around JKD, JKD Concepts and FMA.

McGrath absorbed all that Peketi-tersa material to the dedicated extreme and hung in there as a Peketiti follower until...until...his common sense could no longer bear it.  I have to support his break from the group because I understand why on various levels.

Time has shown me that McGrath is a good guy and talented guy, dedicated to FMA. And he was smart enough to make some good choices with his FMA life. (I have never met him but we have communicated for years now.) I wish him well. Does he still do the exact, confusing, and disjointed pile of Gaje, sub-system upon sub-system material as it was? I don't know. (I find it all utterly dense and whimsically unnecessary)

I call Leo Gaje...Gandolph the Magician (from Lord of the Rings) I once saw him in a seminar take a pair of handcuffs, and a guy punched a jab and a cross at him. Pretty darn fast. I saw Leo cuff the jab, twist a bit and cuff the cross. WHEW! Gandolf! Amazing. Problem with this is...he tried to teach this kind of magic to police and regular citizens?
99.99999% of the population cannot do it. We are not Gandolf.  This blind attitude and approach is a tragic flaw as an instructor. Gandolff is cool, but useless to me. Well, I won't go on  about all that. Not appropriate.

ALL FMA could be synthesized into such an easier format, a workable and digestable package, but that common sense is of little matter to a real FMA guy, who, with starry-eyes, looks for a museum collection of complicated extravaganza. Lovers of the prance and dance, if the looseleaf, training manuals aren't at least three feet tall? The FMA artist is somewhat disappointed, and the art is scoffed as "McArnis."

As I have said here many times here in this forum, Dan Inosanto, Leo Gaje and Remy Presas toured this country in the 80s and early 90s and made Filipino MA something. Everyone else on the road was a little-leaguer. And still is a little leaguer. The Canates of Doce Paras toured too, but the big three I mentioned were the real big ambassadors of the art, seeing thousands a of people a year. Perhaps Edgar Saluite of Lameco could have been bigger, but he hated to fly and travel.) That hollowed ground, that impact will never be recovered again.  (Only Dan remains, like an Elvis of FMA)

Hock

[Blade]

One is for sure...there is a lot of magic,bullshit,and fancy at the FMA, but we shouldn't forget that without the basics that we learned from the FMA we might didn't reach what we know today. Shouldn't we be thankfull for what we get teach ed from the (F) locals?

[whitewolf]

Hock-that all sounds a bit off the wall to  me-it seems it goes  back  to  what we have all been saying for awhile-that as always some instructors of one art will do anything to look better than others-although I  have not met anyone of this forum except u i am   glad that the contributors here have their head together  and seem to be wanting to pass on CQC information to  anyone who participates here-From the articles i  have read the Dog Brothers are a pretty dangerous lot and one probably would learn a hell of a  lot from them-also i see Mr Insanto now is into grappeling as he put a big article on his tactics in the last BB-Nothing about his previous life as a knife instructor-whats up  with  that? Guess he is just moving into the century of MMA?? As for me-i just keep studying on how to   increase speed and reaction time (you know dont you that the jersey  kid is hitting 70 years this sep)-anyhow keep on trucking-whitewolf (el lobo blanco)

[Hock]

All Filipino schools should stick spar. That is the norm. It is sad and shame that a group like the Dog Brothers should be considered special or unique just because they are just doing what should be done as the norm in FMA systems.

And still, you can't spar hard-stick-to-hard-stick everyday or even twice a week, unless it is in a HIGHLY controlled environment. You will be unemployed, wounded, or self-crippled fool. It is set aside for a rare time/event. At some point you have to transition and/or work with soft sticks in training.

You also cannot train with a real knife or shoot real bullets at each other each week in class. There are many, many things you can learn with safer equipment and still remain uncrippled, employed and unwounded. Even rodeo clowns understand this point.

No matter how you do it, soft or hard sticks, it doesn't replace a "street" stick fight without gear. Remy use to say, "you train your whole life for a four-second stick fight."
What you actually wind up training for? Is that specfic event, with that specific gear and rules in mind. Its just fun exercise. We do Killshot - which instantly rewards the head shot. But, no stick fight "competition" is perfect.

It is probably very important that the Dog Brothers (created by Erick Knaus, Arlan Sanford and the original boys, and later picked up by Marc Denny) do their hard stick fight thing once or twice a year to remind all the prissy, dancey, drill-encrusted, Filipino practitioners what they really should be doing, at least once in awhile. The Dog brothers are the last breed doing this in the USA and Europe that get any attention for doing this, if even just "underground" whispers.

Hock
(Dan Inosanto probably wouldn't consider himself a knife instructor, persay. He is an everything-martial arts instructor. His staus? The Elvis of Martial Arts)

 

[Bryan Lee]

  This is for the record, I was in Negros and Ilo Ilo in 2000 for close to 5/6 months. I do not know Leo Gaje nor have I ever met him in person because I had to leave the Philippines due to Political chaos and riots in December 2000. At that time I was scheduled to fight in Negros as a representative of Ilo Ilo, where I was living and training at that time.

  I have a great respect for Leo Gaje for accomplishing what he has done, while some might disagree with his style that is because they are not Filipino and they choose to judge him by western standards on western shores. I'm not trying to insult anyone with that statement but laying it out the way I see it. He is an easy target for westerners because he is truly Filipino, he may have lived in America and hold a American Passport but he gos through life like a Filipino, doing things the Filipino way come hell or high water. I find it very interesting myself, much more so than many of the behaviors of American and other western FMA groups. In the end he should be judged by his skills and training time lines. He was hard core knife before many ever conceived of it, was he not the first person to do knife work as a training video and that video is still relevant today. Surviving Edged Weapons 197? possibly early 80s, not sure on the date but here is an outtake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLNovzbq3KI

  Sure much can be made of Filipino Culture, if one chooses to make fun of things its easy to do and sometimes the truth is hard to separate out of the stories but thats the Philippines, there are many stories there. Another obstacle to any westerners understanding Filipino culture is LOYALTY, one must be loyal in the Philippines or you will not survive, you cannot survive on your own there as its group think, the only individuals are those at the top of the food chain and without a doubt in the Philippine Islands version of FMA Leo Gaje is at the top of the food chain. I have seen many things said about him on the internet and had them whispered into my ear too, much of it would never be repeated to his face on the streets of Bacolad but I'm proud to say that anything and everything I have ever said or written concerning him I would say to his face. Out of all the Martial Arts Experts in the world he is one of the people I would most like to interview, his story I see as the most relevant.

  The following is a separate issue but one introduced here in this topic.

  Dan Inosanto has become a complete whore, has sold his soul as far as I'm concerned when he chose to allow his Inosanto Academy to be used for Dr. Gyi in 2007 to make more money off the backs of dead servicemen. I know for a fact that POW Network contacted him and had representatives contact him and ask him not to support a Military Fraud, Dr. Gyi. Then after the fact it was found that the Inosanto Academy Website was celebrating fallen American Serviceman posting up their pictures while at the same time supporting Gyi and hosting his training seminar, it made me want to puke. It has been an established fact since 1999 that Dr. Gyi is and always has been a fraud concerning his Service to the United States Of America as it is a matter of record that he holds no DD214, Yet Dan Inosanto gave him a place to earn money in 2007 knowing full well the hypocrisies of posting pictures of Dead American Paratroopers alongside the Military Fraud Dr. Gyi, a unforgivable injustice.


  By publicly criticizing Dan Inosanto I will have crossed a line with many people, one that was not crossed by my criticism of Marc Denny but in the end they are both scum and total whores. Nothing is sacred for them, neither will ever understand FMA, they may be able to sell  their stories to the unlearned but they will never sell them in the Philippines.  Who are either one of them to represent the Philippine Islands or Philippine Culture? They represent California and what people in California consider relevant to FMA.

http://inosanto.com/pages/tributes_troops_fallen.html

http://inosanto.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=6415

http://web.archive.org/web/20030510024415/http://dogbrothers.com/albums/TEACHERS/46_G.jpg

[Hock]

I also wanted to interview Gaje. In 2004 or so, I sent word to Leo to interview him for CQC Magazine. I rotated covers and was always game, every fourth cover or so, to put a martial artist on the cover. Gaje is a FMA pioneer so I thought he would be a good choice. Plus, he had dissappeared form the USA for years, and was quietly back visiting Texas. 

I was immediately "assigned" an intermediary. "Negotiations" occured. In the end, he did not want only one cover, but 4 magazine covers in a row, plus unedited ramblings in the four issues. I fear these unedited ramblings (I've seen examples) and I wouldn't give the Pope four covers in a row, so, that was that.

On Gyi and Dan and Denny? I think Dan and Denny are good guys at heart and they were swayed by Gyi and his preliminary package of lies. They invested too much time and value in Gyi to back away and in a way are defensive about doing so, and have to defend their decisions to do so. It gets deeper and deeper.

Despite all the "walk like a warrior" talk, these guys do not relate or understand the many levels of real military culture and history, the many frauds and so forth being one such level. Niave and innocent, they bought into the whole deal. (But Gyi is a talented martial artist)

Hock

[Boar Man]

Hock

Did you see the Fight Quest episode on the FMAs where Tuhon Gaje and a Modern Arnis (I think it was Roddel) instructor trained the guys?

Tuhon Gaje took the one practionar up to the secret training camp and initiated him (the only westerner) in a sacred rite of a kali warrior complete with shaman and sacrificing a chicken on him.  I had been told about this from a guy and former karate student of mine at work who knew I practiced the FMAs and he told me all about it saying "Yeah Tony (his son) and I watched this program it was so cool and they showed the secret ritual that you all go through with the chicken and the blood when you start practicing the (FMAs)..."  I thought he was joking and said yeah whatever.

But then I saw the show and the ritual.  Crazy.

I just had to wonder what any Pekiti practionar must have thought on how they had missed out on becoming a true kali warrior when they didn't have a chicken sacrificed for them.  I mean spend all the time and money to train in a system devoted years of your life and not have become a true Kali warrior as this guy was the only westerner given this rite of passage.

I mean no disrespect to any filipinos here, or to their culture.  If sacrificing chickens is part of the FMAs rituals, than I stand corrected.  I just took this as part of the hype for the show.

 

[lakerssportsfan]

Hock,

You mean no one in New Jersey ever kisses anyones ring?

As for Dr Gyi, I find it interesting that he seems to be using a Kukri in Bando, and art from Burma when the Kukri itself comes from Nepal.

[Hock]

And...almost 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of all Gurkas are from Nepal, not Burma. Maybe even 100%, so said a British Commander of Ghurkas, that once tried to find records on Gyi and several of Gyi's "other names?" for me. (Retired USA military groups asked me to ask him) Couldn't find a trace of him.
 
(Darn, we forgot to tell him that Gyi was also a master spy too with so many aliases)

Hock

[lakerssportsfan]

Or maybe he just flunked geography.

[Bryan Lee]

  Currently the only Ghurkas around here are in Brunai, there is a recruiting station in Nepal, and just in the news is a story of betrayel by the Brits which plan to kick many of the retired Ghurks back to never never land, I do hear Tibet is hiring.


These are OUR soldiers. And they are being treated appallingly
Last updated 11:24, Thursday, 20 March 2008

They were considered good enough to put their lives on the line for this country. Yet once again in matters of the military, with the treatment of Gurkhas who retired before July 1997 the government has shot itself in the foot. It is to Britain’s shame that yesterday thousands of these loyal and brave fighting men had to march on Parliament, pictured left, to step up pressure on the Government for fairer pensions and the right to live in this country. The way the Ministry of Defence dismisses their case with utter disdain smacks of some old fashioned colonialism.

These Gurkhas surely earned the right to British citizenship when they fought for the country, not to be told to clear off home now they’re aren’t useful as active cannon fodder any more. They didn’t expect to risk their lives only to be cursorily waved away by politicians whose only experience of front line conflict probably comes when the rush is on to grab the best table for lunch in the Commons dining room. This is one issue which, I suspect, unites supporters of all political parties. Only the Government and Whitehall can’t see it, living in their strange cloistered world protected from public opinion by their mealy mouthed advisers.

It’s ironic that our rulers have allowed every Tom, Dick and Harry into the country, half the time now knowing where they are or what they are up to. I know who the taxpayer would rather support. Yet they waste time, money and their reputation enforcing petty rules on a bunch of men who actually did something positive for Britain. It’s contemptible. What are they saying? That bullets were softer, and bombs less explosive, before 1997?

Ghurkas served in the Falklands. Today they are serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. It makes you wonder why any of them are prepared to put their lives on the line for their uncaring masters. And it’s not just the Gurkhas who are treated like dirt either. Canadian-born Samantha Crozier, whose husband is currently fighting overseas with the Army, has been told her application for British citizenship will be refused when her temporary visa expires. Samantha’s mother was British and her grandfather and great grandfather fought for the country. Not good enough for an ungrateful government which condescendingly offers to pay her hotel bill in Canada while she re-applies.

Next time the Government says we are going to fight an illegal war, it’s worth remembering the stories of 20,000 dispossessed Gurkhas and mums like Samantha Crozier who are turfed out of Britain while their husbands daily risk their lives in some God-forsaken foreign field.