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  • February 08, 2012, 04:15:33 PM
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Author Topic: Gross Motor Movements  (Read 1136 times)

arnold

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2008, 04:28:04 AM »

Everyone of Nicky's motor "skills" is gross! ::)
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Hock

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2008, 05:53:45 AM »

I Forgot about the Ayoob story! I will have to remember that for future writings. Though it smacks a bit like the "Police in the basement with a stopwatch" kind of test, it really is worth noting. And no doubt some medical people had to be there. Massad would do that.

On jumping...remember that story from Buff Nickels that he and group had to re-qualify for jump status in the Berets or Rangers (he was both through the years) and they all were thrilled to go. I recall everyone had at least 100 jumps and pretty much loved it. They jumped, When they hit the ground they noticed one of the guys has peed his pants. Never happened before, never happened again. The guy was mystified. 

Hock

Nick Hughes

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2008, 08:41:04 AM »

If I remember rightly Mas did have some medical people to do the administering of the epi.

Nick
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

JimH

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2008, 02:50:53 PM »

I was training with  the Germans and we ,a few US Military and German troops,were loaded into a Transall (German Prop aircraft) going on an equipment jump.

The Germans all had this little signal for being afraid,they tapped their thumb and forefinger together in short fast stroke motion,they were all doing it,some for real,some just questioning some that looked really bad.

I was second man back from the door on my side when this old timer gets on with a Bike/Tricycle and sky diving rig on.
I was asking who is this guy and everyone around who spoke English said it was Tiger Schultz a legend in the German Airborne.

It seems Tiger Schultz loved jumping and held some kind of records and was known for crazy stunts.

Well here is this older Guy in a sky dive rig sitting on a big tricycle,no altimeter ,no googles,no helmet.(they said he NEVER used an altimeter and he had a look like he didn't need one or care)

They flew us up for his jump altitude first,the door opens and out rides this Crazy guy on a Trike,everyone in the plane is trying to get a position to see this event,all of a sudden the Ice was broken,no more signals going around of fear,everyone was laughing and talking about what they had just seen.

In short time we got down to our jump altitude,every body out safe,everyone still with a smile on their face and all that was talked about for days was Tiger Schultz and the hope that we would have him on another jump.

What this man did, intended or not,was he caused a distraction,he took peoples minds from one thing,sitting there listening to the aircraft humming along while thinking about was the jump going to be a good one,to hey did you see that,that was great.

Forget your fear and problems and just do what needs to be done and enjoy it.

Nick.
You are right.
Imagine training to do something ,like jumping from an aircraft,which can be life or death and doing so with No where near 300-500 no less 3000-5000 repitions?
LOL.

I remember one of my first malfunctions:
A helo jump and one of the guys passed under me and I landed on top of his chute,maybe a possible problem worked on a dozen times ,if that.
I thought wow,I am on his chute,I have to run off before my chute deflats and I ran off the chute,my chute fully reinflated and  all was well.

When your life is on the line ,you pay attention to the training and you do it,when needed, without hesitation.

When you have a malfunction in a parachute,do you think your heart rate goes up?
Do you think remembering to rech for a reserve chute is a gross or fine motor skill at that point?

How about if you have to cut away ,and reach up to the covers  of the ties that mate chute with harness,flip the covers up,disconnect from the chute by pulling the rings,drop away and then reach for and pull your reserve chute,all in a few SEGMENTS of maybe a few seconds?

When you understand that at 3500 feet you have a time of exit the aircraft to ground of 60 seconds or less,and 5-8  seconds are gone just to find out if the chute deployed properly and that if a problem all must be done right and the new chute fully inflated well before impact.
Then think about most jump runs now are between 500 and 800 feet,one does not have the time to sit and think about what is going on,no less worry about heart rate,fine,complex or gross motor skill,you do what needs to be done Or Die.

Same as a street confrontation,do what needs to be done,by whatever means possible or possibly DIE.

The possibilty of DEATH removes all concerns over what people say you can do.
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2008, 10:01:55 PM »

Jim,

One day, here soon, I have to tell you my tale of my water jump with the 3eme cie in the REP...funny stuff.

Nick
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

Trainer

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2008, 07:04:10 AM »

I was training with  the Germans and we ,a few US Military and German troops,were loaded into a Transall (German Prop aircraft) going on an equipment jump.

The Germans all had this little signal for being afraid,they tapped their thumb and forefinger together in short fast stroke motion,they were all doing it,some for real,some just questioning some that looked really bad.

I was second man back from the door on my side when this old timer gets on with a Bike/Tricycle and sky diving rig on.
I was asking who is this guy and everyone around who spoke English said it was Tiger Schultz a legend in the German Airborne.

It seems Tiger Schultz loved jumping and held some kind of records and was known for crazy stunts.

Well here is this older Guy in a sky dive rig sitting on a big tricycle,no altimeter ,no googles,no helmet.(they said he NEVER used an altimeter and he had a look like he didn't need one or care)

They flew us up for his jump altitude first,the door opens and out rides this Crazy guy on a Trike,everyone in the plane is trying to get a position to see this event,all of a sudden the Ice was broken,no more signals going around of fear,everyone was laughing and talking about what they had just seen.

In short time we got down to our jump altitude,every body out safe,everyone still with a smile on their face and all that was talked about for days was Tiger Schultz and the hope that we would have him on another jump.

What this man did, intended or not,was he caused a distraction,he took peoples minds from one thing,sitting there listening to the aircraft humming along while thinking about was the jump going to be a good one,to hey did you see that,that was great.

Forget your fear and problems and just do what needs to be done and enjoy it.

Nick.
You are right.
Imagine training to do something ,like jumping from an aircraft,which can be life or death and doing so with No where near 300-500 no less 3000-5000 repitions?
LOL.

I remember one of my first malfunctions:
A helo jump and one of the guys passed under me and I landed on top of his chute,maybe a possible problem worked on a dozen times ,if that.
I thought wow,I am on his chute,I have to run off before my chute deflats and I ran off the chute,my chute fully reinflated and  all was well.

When your life is on the line ,you pay attention to the training and you do it,when needed, without hesitation.

When you have a malfunction in a parachute,do you think your heart rate goes up?
Do you think remembering to rech for a reserve chute is a gross or fine motor skill at that point?

How about if you have to cut away ,and reach up to the covers  of the ties that mate chute with harness,flip the covers up,disconnect from the chute by pulling the rings,drop away and then reach for and pull your reserve chute,all in a few SEGMENTS of maybe a few seconds?

When you understand that at 3500 feet you have a time of exit the aircraft to ground of 60 seconds or less,and 5-8  seconds are gone just to find out if the chute deployed properly and that if a problem all must be done right and the new chute fully inflated well before impact.
Then think about most jump runs now are between 500 and 800 feet,one does not have the time to sit and think about what is going on,no less worry about heart rate,fine,complex or gross motor skill,you do what needs to be done Or Die.

Same as a street confrontation,do what needs to be done,by whatever means possible or possibly DIE.

The possibilty of DEATH removes all concerns over what people say you can do.


Dead on, the first two times I jumped, I had twists in the line and had to bike kick out both times. We we showen how to bike kick but never actually did it. Sooo i guess i died from not having had the chance to practice 5000 times
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noload

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2008, 07:18:00 PM »

We started training a rookie cop today and someone had filled his head with Siddle's "findings". How much damage have we** done propagating this kind of thing? How long before it's purged? :o

** At least those of us who once went along with the Siddle parade.
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Hock

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2010, 09:46:26 AM »

Back to Gross motor movements!

Anything new out there?

Hock

Kentbob

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Re: Gross Motor Movements
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2010, 12:22:33 PM »

I would posit that there are as many reactions to adrenaline and stress as there are people.  Some people naturally will be able to accomplish the very fine skills that are required.  I mean, what about EOD?  Part of being a sniper is learning to be very still, and not make large movements in the first place.  Patience is probably a sniper's number one virtue, more than the ability to shoot.  EOD, especially as I've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan? 

Imagine working to get rid of a bomb that could flip a 5 ton vehicle in the air.  NOW, imagine that the bad guys could be watching you, and you don't quite know if you've smothered all their detonation options.  Adrenaline?  I would imagine.  STress?  Out the wazoo.  Fine motor movements?  Yeah...  I mean it's not like in the movies, where you have to cut the blue wire.  But putting the charges in, wiring everything together, making sure you don't touch the wrong wires in the process...I'm not certain that you can really beat EOD for high stress jobs requiring gross motor movement.  Getting shot at is one thing, same with being a fighter pilot.  THere, you're distracted, concentrating on the serious business of staying alive.  As an EOD tech, there is not the same perception of an imminent threat to one's life.  Some EOD guys are just bughouse nuts, like Tiger Schulz in the above story.  Nothing bothers them, and so they appear ice cold.  Every field, every branch, every job in the world has individuals of this caliber.  The rest of us?  We get on with the serious business of survival.

When it comes to MA/SD/Combatives, I would never counsel a student that his fine motor control is going to shut down at the moment of truth.  I would make 'em aware of the possibility, but it is my personal belief that the more one is exposed to certain kinds of stress, the less effect that stress has on one's mind and body.  My first jump scary.  My second was even scarier.  My thirty-second jump was pretty run of the mill.  After a couple jumps, a firefight pretty much seemed like no big deal.  Humans are amazingly adaptive critters, more than we give ourselves credit for at times.  Sometimes, in adaptation to stress, we have side effects such as combat stress, Post traumatic stress, and PTSD.  Sometimes not.  The effects of stress will be different on everyone, as will the perception of lifethreatening danger.  Hopefully, with proper training and instruction, a student will never wonder if his gross motor skills will shut down when SHTF.  He will just know, instinctively, that no matter what happens, battlefield, traffic stop, or back alley mugging, he can do what it takes to survive.

Kent
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