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[JeffC]

Black Belt's Jim Wagner was never on a SWAT team, just an "office boy."

This comes in from a veteran, federal investigator, Jeff Clancy, with the promise of more signed on support names and documentation behind him. I consider him a reliable source. but for you out there who don't, you must take this for what it is worth and in this form or manner. Maybe personal message him? Then you decide for yourselves.

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Here's the answer to the SWAT team question from his own department. 


From JeffC:
"Here's the answer to the SWAT team question from his own department.   Info about JW:  According to the Costa Mesa Police, JW could not pass the SWAT physical and was not a SWAT Team member at Costa Mesa Police Department. He did work at the command post for his artistic abilities (and did do an outstanding job for the SWAT Commander; who brought him on for that purpose).  But, JW never kicked a door on a SWAT operation, never passed the SWAT oral board, never deployed on a call-out and was not issued a sniper rifle or subgun.  When he was asked to leave the command post position, JW’s spot was replaced by a non-sworn, unarmed, untrained city park ranger. His was brought on for his abilities relative to computer graphics." I can assure you that the source was a former partner from Costa Mesa who can attest to this and has nothing to gain."
                                                                     Jeff Clancy,DEA                             

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Here's more from Agent Clancy: (moved here from another thread to space and further reduce the "Wagner fingerprint."

The Orange County Sheriff’s Department:  JW was told to leave the reserve division with no explanation.  Apparently, JW was claiming to be a full-time OCSD Sergeant and this may have been why he was dropped from the department without signing anything or any known reason (very unusual for any member of any department).  Before he was let go for unspecific reasons, JW was called into the Assistant Sheriff’s office on an unrelated incident.  The Assistant Sheriff had JW’s duty weapon taken from him during the meeting.  There were also two armed OCSD deputies in the room; supposedly to protect the Assistant Sheriff.   

Also, on JW’s website 073103 he states about his first assignment with the Orange County Sheriff’s Department, “I was placed in the Search & Rescue Unit, but before my paperwork ever went through Sergeant Willie Moreno told me, “You want to go to the Dignitary Protection Unit, don’t you?”  So, JW puts search and rescue on list of “Law Enforcement Training”.  But, he was not in the unit long enough to even have the paperwork go through.  How much training could he have received in a few days to make him an instructor?     

Still waiting on the list of training officers from the 200 or so police/military units who have asked JW to come to them for his skills.  Don’t need all 200, how about just 60 of them?  50?  25?  If you try to get to JW’s 2007 article on DOCUMENTING training, it goes to a different article.

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The memo from Jim Wagner himself that proves that he was not ON the SWAT team and served in a "office capacity" and was even TERMINATED from THAT support position.
http://hockscombatforum.com/talkwagswatmemo.pdf




                                                                             

[Hock]

Wagner's "Reality-Based PAST" does not match his "Wagner-World Bull"
Wagner's old bio reads,"

     "During his career with the Costa Mesa Police Department, Jim Wagner earned a place
     on the SWAT team."

"A ...place?" Does it suggets to you that he was a trigger-puller, door-kicker...you know...an actual SWAT Team member?  Is he trying to fool us? Read on.


This is from Attorney Sam Browning of Bullshido...

Attorney Samuel Browning interviewed Officer Phil Hartman of the Costa Mesa, California Police Department. (07/23/08) Phil formally served on their SWAT team as a tactical officer for 10 years, and spent another 13 years as a crisis negotiator. He was on this team when James Wagner was involved with the team. Phil told Browning that Costa Mesa has a Department of approximately 160 officers. The SWAT team is part time in that the SWAT officers normally perform other functions and then are called together when they need to be deployed. Phil also indicated that this team was not deployed often since Costa Mesa is more peaceful other California communities.

Phil stated to Browning that Wagner was a logistical officer,

he was not a regular SWAT officer, though he worked/helped with the SWAT team in the office. He was not a sniper, and he was not executing entries or acting in such a tactical capacity.

Further, Wagner did not train that SWAT team in Tactics, and Phil told Browning that he does not remember Wagner conducting tactical training for the department…”

For the complete interview, see...
        http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72918&page=11


(As Sam said then, we now have two reputable sources on this, but since -  I have been contacted by three other Costa Mesa officers who tell the same information. They report that Wagner was annoyed that he was suddenly dimissed " mysteriously" from his SWAT-help-out job, and was successfully replaced by this unarmed, non-SWAT, untrained park ranger. Wagner complained a bit about this to deaf ears at his police department)

Now today? How far will he push the thin semantics on this to still suggest he was "on the SWAT team?" He only did some background support. Never front-line. He was dismissed. He failed the SWAT test by his own admission now (but, why not try again and again through the years?). If he continues to word-play and splits hairs and wants to say he was still "on a team?" Then, this should suggest to you a flaw of deception in his character. No SWAT member or cop even, will accept this deceptive, hair-splitting, only the most niave naive citizens/customers.

Hock

[JimH]

Costa Mesa CITY Jail

The following is Information from Orange County Jails descriptions;
"Most of the jails operated by city
police departments are short-term holding facilities that hold prisoners
for six hours or less. The prisoners are either cited and released or
transported to one of the long-term jail facilities operated by the Orange
County Sheriff-Coroner Department"

Yep a San Quentin,only a smaller version,lots of fights and shankings I bet,lol.

The Costa Mesa Jail that Jim Wagner worked in was a 25 person holding center.
Here is the breakdown as listed by Wagner
"the Costa Mesa Police Department Jail (16 felony and misdemeanor beds, 6 trusty beds, a drunk tank, two solitary confinement cells, and two booking cells).

Andy Friggin Griffith (Andy of Mayberry) had a 6 person Holding center,lol.

The NYC precinct my wife worked at as a Police Officer had a 50 person holding Facility,(that is in one precinct).
Precinct cells are activated when central booking cells are FULL.

Jim Wagner talks about shanks and shankings by prisoners as if he worked in folsom Prison.
How long were prisoners held in this jail?
Overnight?
For a weekend?
Did the prisoners have a yard that they went out in that had to be supervised?
How many shankings ever happened in Costa Mesa JAIL?

Jim Wagner SAID and has written that he had TWO incidents involving a knife.
Neither was during his Jail House work.
Neither intentionally tried to stab him.

[JeffC]

Here's more:

Additional information regarding JW’s “standard” exit interview from the Air Marshals LA office (on September 12th, 2002):

JW was called at home and told to come in for the exit interview. (just short of one single year of work) JW writes, “Part of an exit interview is to try to talk good employees into staying.  Donzanti (the agent in charge) not only did not want me to stay, but said, “I think you got into the program just to get some training.”

This rings true as JW states, on his website dated 2003 (regarding becoming a jailer for Costa Mesa Police), “However, after entertaining the thought for a few days, I reasoned with myself that getting to know how criminals act and think would ultimately help my martial arts teaching down the road.”  and “From day one, starting at the academy (for CMPD), I had the mindset that this career was temporary, and I would bail out when I was good and ready.  I kept taking steps up in the police department to expand my horizons in the martial arts.” and finally, “Of course, gaining a slew of training experiences from the Federal Air Marshal Service only helps my programs to be that much more realistic.” These statements are contrary to JW’s defense that he never proposed to use his police & and (short) military career to his teaching benefit.

The Orange County Sheriff’s Department:  JW was told to leave the reserve division (fired)with no explanation.  Apparently, JW was claiming to be a full-time OCSD Sergeant and this may have been why he was dropped from the department without signing anything or any known reason (very unusual for any member of any department). (The agency was also troubled by wagner's claims that he was the Sheriff's bodygurad and ran a dignitary protection team) Before he was let go for unspecific reasons, JW was called into the Assistant Sheriff’s office on an unrelated incident.  The Assistant Sheriff had JW’s duty weapon taken from him during the meeting.  There were also two armed OCSD deputies in the room; supposedly to protect the Assistant Sheriff.   

 
A JW trend:  Impersonating rank, fabricating titles, having his duty weapon taken away (Sheriff’s department & the Air Marshals) and using his computer skills to falsify documents.
 
Still waiting on the list of training officers from the 200 or so police/military units who have asked JW alone to come to them for his skills.  Don’t need all 200, how about just 60 of them?  50?  25?  If you try to get to JW’s 2007 article on how very important it is to DOCUMENT ALL training, even Wagner's own, why now does it go to a different article?

JW says, on his website in 2003, he spent 365 days, “directly involved in the War on Terrorism (September 11, 2001 – September 11, 2002)”.  Then he goes on to say that for several months following the attacks he guarded the Sheriff of Orange County during various public appearences?  This is being directly involved in the War on Terrorism?  How? What is JW’s determination to make this far-reaching statement? According to the Sheriff’s Department, unpaid/volunteer/reserve Wagner was let go because he was pretending to be a full-time Sergeant and for other reasons; on or about the 20th of January, 2002.  JW says he “resigned” after the FAMs made him an offer and he was flown to the FAM’s training center.  The time frames and his statements just don’t add up.  But with JW, facts are of little concern (see the next paragraph as well).
 
“Jim Wagner decided to resign from the federal government working his last day on September 11, 2003 - the one year anniversary of the terrorist attacks.” What attack is he talking about that occurred on the eleventh of September, 2002?  And, according to the air marshals, JW had his badge & duty weapon taken from him on the 29th of August and he took vacation days until he resigned on the 11th of September; so he was not working up to his last day (at least not on the front-lines of combating terrorism…as JW always promotes.  Hard to fight terrorists from home when you are suspended and with no duty weapon or badge of authority.

JW states that he has, “…actual combat experience.” (in a letter to his congressman – page 7 August 22, 2002).  When was this experienced?  In the 8 months of Army time where he states he “saw not action”?  He also states, in his article "Just Who Is Jim Wagner Character? Part 1,  “…I never saw a live combat” (incomplete sentence is his)  12/27/06.  I think we would all like to know what actual combat experience JW has experienced.

                                                                           Jeff Clancey, (veteran DEA investigator)

[Hock]

In case you all are wondering while I am listed and then quoting other people's entries here? As I have said here, months ago,  I am trying to reduce the "Wagner fingerprint" on this forum and consolidate random threads. I also just don't feel right erasing people's comments, but I do need to reduce the overall "thing." - Hock


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This in from an old time, long time, police officer co-worker of Wagner's...


"You see, in Jim's mind, he feels that if people come to their *own* conclusions, then technically he's not lying. That's why he's so slick in the way he says things.

You could ask him: "Jim, have you ever been on a SWAT stack"?

And he would answer "yes", because he might have done it one time at an HSS training event. He'll leave that part out, however, and let you think that it was done while busting down a crackhouse door in the worst parts of L.A.

I was there at the Orange County Sheriff's Office meeting with the Head of the bodyguard detail (George J.) when JW was grilled for saying that he was Mike's bodyguard.
Yep....JW got caught in the lie with the Head of the detail, himself. Embarrassing, to say the least. It's lies like this that got Jim fired from OCSD in the first place.

Now, was this the *ONLY* reason that Jim was fired from the Orange County S.O. Reserves? I don't know for sure. There may have been other things as well that may have been as bad and/or worse that he did.

Be careful when confronting Jim with this because if there were worse things that he was fired over, then he will say that this wasn't the reason...and then neglect to mention that it was a contributing factor in addition to X, Y & Z."
                                                                               -MW

[JimH]

Had been a member of the hide Stalk Shoot Company teaching SWAT Tactics and other things,According to him,along with running the shooting and sniper ranges at a Marine Corps base and he Failed the SWAT Run ?

So as we look at his site and read about his SWAT Training and add on training which encompassed we are reading BS,right ? We are reading his HSS courses, not SWAT. Courses,Right ?

Quote from JW Site:
On March 11, 1994 Officer Jim Wagner earned a place on the S.W.A.T. (Special Weapons and Tactics) Team thanks to Lieutenant Ron Smith's support. For most police departments in North America this is the top-of-the-food-chain, and Jim took full advantage of the opportunities. It was through this conduit that Jim learned about logistics, command post operations, hostage negotiations, entry team tactics, and police sniping. On the job training included courses with LAPD SWAT, the U.S. Army Special Forces, the Orange County Sheriff's Department Tactical Training Center, and from U.S. Marines Division Schools MCB Camp Pendleton (Advanced Sniper Course, Military Operations Urban Terrain MOUT, Helicopter Rope Suspension Training HRST, and Range Safety Officer RSO).


The Above is ALL BS.
Isn't it Jim,LOL.

Earned a Place on the SWAT Team ? You mean earned a place in the TOC  typing on a computer. As a member of the TOC,did you ever train with the Police departments or Military units listed above as an entry team member ,a door kicker,trigger puller ?
No,only with your HSS courses,Right ? Keep adding on and correcting the BS Jim ,it is going well,LOL.

Hey Jim,
Please tell us what courses you took to learn the Anti Terrorism tactics you learned and employed when you and your OPFOR as you call them on your site were doing Martial arts at your Karate school.

Tell us why you left the Costa Mesa Police.
Why were you Fired ?
Tell us why you left the Reserve sheriff Department.
Why were you Fired ?
Tell us why you left the Air marshall Program.
Why were you almost Fired and quickly resigned?

False accusations against fellow officers,False/misleading paper work claiming rank and jobs not held, misuse of ID Cards,creation and use of False documents,creation and use of false ID Cards.

Please tell us how you are NOT IN JAIL.

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Wagner did a short, 8 month stint as a Federal Air Marshall before being forced into resigning over a forgery investigation.

Wagner's website still says he WAS a Federal Air Marshall.(FAM)
quote from his site
"On April 18, 2002 Jim graduated with honors (Academic Award achieving the average score of 97.68 and qualifying as EXPERT on the Practical Pistol Course), and was sworn in as a full-time Federal Agent."

"After Agent Jim Wagner completed 146 Federal Air Marshal missions, suspicious activity started dying down in the aviation sector. At the same time Jim Wagner's monthly column HIGH RISK in Black Belt magazine, and his feature articles in Budo magazine in Europe in five different languages, were becoming increasingly popular. Since writing for these two publications, first in 1999 and then in 2000, the martial arts community was finally awakening to the real threats society was facing thanks to Jim Wagner’s reality-based techniques and training methods that are based upon military, police, and special operations training.

In conjunction with several other events happening at the time, Jim Wagner decided to resign from the federal government working his last day on September 11, 2003 - the one year anniversary of the terrorist attacks. "You can only tail so many people, fly back and forth so many times before it gets a little repetitive. Besides, the FAM higher-ups, now run by former Secret Service agents, were starting to put too many restrictions on the FAMS and officer safety was being compromised. It was no longer the elite team I had originally joined, so I left,"  Wagner said.

A few errors in the above.

I had attended Wagners Instructor course in New York City, July 2003.
Wagner SAID,he had been gone from the FAM service. Wagner says on his site he left Sept 11.2003 "The first anniversary of 9/11/01. The first Anniversary was 9/11/02.
That would have been a BIG deal in the FAM as it was in the WORLD.

Wagner graduated from FAM Training April 18,2002. Wagner RESIGNED Sept 11,2002 (The First Anniversary of 9/11). That is 5 Months flying at Most, after the academy.

Originally Wagner said he left because the job was UNEVENTFUL.
Now he has posted on his webpage, 3-4 major ANTI TERROR STORIES, LOL. (Now we know he was forced out because of a forgery investigation)

So was UNEVENTFUL or Jim Wagner eventful ? LOL

Hey Jim Wagner
you have written on your webpage: "Where do I, JimH, come up with 5 months riding in a seat?"

The WAYBACK Machine is great when one KNOWS what to look for:
Here is Realfighting.com July 24,2003 about JIM WAGNER
http://web.archive.org/web/20030803121325/www.realfighting.com/0503/jwagnerframe


Then, on September 12, 2002 (a year to the day when Jim Wagner started counter-terrorism work) he resigned as a Federal Agent. The reasons for leaving were evident as explained by his own worlds, "I was on a mission in Washington DC when the idea hit me. Right then and there I knew what I had to do. There were a lot of martial artists out there who had the right idea about what reality-based martial arts should be, but most still do not understand what reality-based martial arts actually is, and has to be.

WOW! Jim RESIGNED Sept 11,2002
Just as I said and have said.
Not an error on MY Part but a BIG Error on your part Jim.
Jim Wagner sent an application just after Sept 11,2001
(also coincided with Black Belt asking for Wagner to write an article on FAM)
FAM was hiring and holding off proper security /Background checks.
Wagner gets in and graduates April 18,2002
RESIGNS SEPT 11,2002. 8 months. 5 months riding in the seat.

[JimH]

When one has NO CLUE,they do not present the truth they defer to
the old Baffle them with BS, as the selling point.
Baffle them with BS is still what is going on in Black Belt articles by Wagner.
Black Belt is sticking with him and he has more videos and books in the works with them.

The latest Black Belt has him telling how to know when you are being followed and how to avoid and evade these situations,lol.
He tells of having an ability to spot terrorists.
His old story of seeing a terror suspect,following him onto an aircraft and having the Feds pull the passenger and taking him away,never knowing the outcome has changed
Now Wagner spotted the terrorist walking through the terminal
Wagner Follwed him onto the aircraft.
Wagner took the passenger off the aircraft as the passenger had a briefcase which looked as if it could contain a bomb (I guess the heightened Baggage checks after 9/11 were not in place a year later in 2002?? LOL)
Wagner took the passenger to the Gangway just outside of the aircraft,downed the passenger but could not wait for the bomb squad so to prevent detonation by the passenger Wagner opened the briefcase,LOL,LOL,LOL
(Just like his searching for car bombs at the airport while a Sheriff,what BS.)
The case had no bomb but dd contain papers,papers which as an engineer Wagner knew to be about NUKES,LOL
The Passenger then told Wagner he was correct the information was about Nuclear Bombs/weapons and the Feds took the passenger away.
Talk about Baffle them with BS well there it is PURE BS

Wagner worked SWAT Classes for HSS.
He was given a shot at the SWAT physical agility due to connections made through HSS and he failed it IMMEDIATELY because he could NOT make the initial run.
End of SWAT story.
Never offered or attempted a retry
The pictures with helmets and weapons are from HSS training.
He worked the TOC on the computer providing logistics,and bringing up building blue prints when and if needed.
This computer job was also short lived.

His website Bio is in constant change with loads more pictures and certificates to try and air brush over the fact that it is all BS.

[Hock]

So now...wait...I have to digest this...

1) Wagner sees a suspicious person in an airport before he takes off, thinking there is a bomb in a briefcase. He takes him down. DOWN! (but briefcase has gone though X-Ray security, yet our agent Wagner "detected" a bomb on mere visual inspection)

2) All bomb-squad protocol aside, Wagner opens briefcase! No bomb! Papers! (But I thought Wagner's honed 007 instincts had detected a bomb?)

3) BUT, despite these two egregious, mistakes -
               a) wrong on bomb/tossing man without bomb to the floor,
               b) wrong on opening suitcase if it was indeed bomb, (ka-boom!)

Wager - like Jack Buar on 24 - instantly recognizes the papers in the briefcase to be "tossed in, in a hurry" and to be secret NUKE engineer papers. The man instantly confesses. Right there. Instantly. The man is swept away by the Feds and Jimbo Bauer saves the world again. Right, children readers!?

THAT was close for us boys and girls! Imagine if the man had the nuke papers on a CD? Or small, hard drive? or those little spy-ish things we see - you know those micro-chippy-things.  Something you, I or everyone else would have for common papers since the 1990s. Especially these pesky international terrorists that smuggle nuke plans. Why, why...Wagner would not have seen the engineering papers to identify them instantly! Lucky us! Lucky world. Whew!

Am I...am I digesting this properly?
Does this sound like childish, fantasy, thin-air, neurotic bullshit?
Or, am I missing something?

Please correct me.
Hock


 

[Nick Hughes]

That's the problem with bullshite...the pros know immediately when you start speaking it...the amateurs get fooled all the time.

Nick

[JimH]

Sorry Hock
No correction needed
You have it ABSOLUTELY RIGHT
LOL

Here is the same story slightly changed as it appears on JWs web site:

Another exciting day on the job as a FAM was when Agent Jim Wagner spotted a Pakistani man doing surveillance on an aircraft bound for Washington, D.C. Jim followed him into the aircraft with his team and blended in with the boarding passengers. Upon the signal Agent Wagner and his team took the man into custody and his team secured the aircraft and searched for other possible suspects.

Not knowing if it the briefcase contained a bomb or not, and not having the luxury of calling a bomb squad should there be a second terrorist in the plane with a cell phone who could activate it remotely, Agent Wagner opened the briefcase immediately when in the middle of the jetway. Fortunately there was no bomb inside. However, upon searching the contents of the briefcase Agent Wagner found suspicious documentation inside. The unorganized papers that seemed to have been just thrown into the briefcase contained unusual diagrams that Agent Wagner did not understand, even though he had taken years of architectural, mechanical, and electrical drafting in school. When Agent Wagner pressed him for an answer the man nervously spouted off, "They have to do with nuclear!" and would not elaborate further. He refused to answer any more questions. Two hours later the FBI whisked the man off.

Agent Wagner was never given any further information about the man he took off of the aircraft. “I don’t know what happen to the man I pulled off of that plane. I don’t know if he plans for a nuclear weapon or a dirty bomb. He could have been a legitimate scientist. I’ll never know, but I did my part in fighting on the War on Terrorism. At least I stepped up to the plate” Jim Wagner said.



Safety of the passengers first,LOL.

 
 
 
 

  

[Hock]

Good thing the loose, nuke papers looked "quickly tossed" in the suitcase, huh! I mean, as opposed to loose papers that would move around when someone was walking around, or when tossed to the ground by Wagner's A-Team, Takedown squad.

It takes a special skill set to determine papers that were "quickly tossed" into a suitcase, between those loose papers after a man walked through the airport and/or the man himself was "quickly tossed' down holding a suitcase with loose papers.

I guess this was Wagner writing about himself in third person, I gather, as though it was from a news reporter. Of course there will be no public news reports on this, as this was top secret, nuke deal never to be documented or discussed.

                      "But he did his part in fighting the war on terrorism!"

(Darn, he forgot the words "frontlines," that time. Frontlines! "Frontlines of terrorism!" Thats the catch-phrase that sells, Jimbo!!!)

Yup, lets jump any ol' Pakistani with a large suitcase. "A-Team charge!" 

A federal insider read this and reported to me -
"On Wagner. I've been around real bomb shit for 19 years.  My 'Jack Bauer' skills might get me a quicker decision on the papers, but then again, I wouldn't have opened the suitcase.  At __________, where REAL bombs ___________, our guys routinely shot and/or blew up briefcases that employees left unattended.  Blow up first, review contents later - usually included Penthouse and sandwiches."


Hock

[jmech]

Did you ever think that maybe this story is true-perhaps it is the reason Wagner is a FORMER Air Marshal.....I mean, taking someone down because of a suitcase, opening a suitcase you thought had a bomb in it, then interrogating the person in custody without miranda, come on! FBI probably was asking the guy if he wanted to press charges...

This sounds like a scene out of the movie Johnny English. I'm just surprised he didn't shoot the guy in the leg to get him to say they were plans for a nuke.

Joe

[gematriot]

2) All bomb-squad protocol aside, Wagner opens briefcase!

Reminds of a scene from the movie "SHOWTIME" (2002, Robert de Niro and Eddie Murphy)...

William Shatner: (advising Trey on how TV cops taste drugs) You spear the knife into the bag... then pick some of the drugs up with the knife... then lightly press it on your tongue. And that is how TV cops taste drugs!
Detective Mitch Preston: What if its cyanide?

[youngilethal]

Is this for real? I dont consider myself to be a genius but do people actually fall for this BS? I'm a baby in the self-defense world compared to the pioneers on this site and i would never in my wildest dreams cook up a crock a shit like that story to sell my product....lol Agent Jimmy does it again!!

[JimH]

Jmech,
Wagner was thrown out of the Air Marshals for...(edited out by Hock)

Wagner also is always in charge of a team of men, Funny that. Here is a guy who did a full 3 Months flying,(sitting in a seat) and he is in charge of a Team ?

In charge of a Team,why? because he was a:

* former Military, (lol) finished basic, got his radio MOS and quit with a congressman's help.
* former SWAT, (lol( Never was one!
* Former Body guard (lol) yep his story is that - because he was on SWAT he was pushed
  to be a Bodyguard to THE SHERIFF.(well if he never was NEVER in SWAT then how did he get
  the BG job? And, was in trouble for telling the public he was the sheriff's bodyguard) LOL.
  He was an unpaid, reverse anyway.

He also has several other similar stories of Terrorist encounters on his site,lol.
He always is able to spot the Middle Eastern man who is a definite Al Queda operator,lol.

Yep, always in charge and always doing some stupid crap that if it were real and if he ever actually had done what he claims could him his job and cost people their lives.
JW got to play with inert explosive devices while with HSS.