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[Hock]

Watch this two-minute CPR film. The new version. No more mouth-to-mouth
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/10/13/cheat.death.cpr.demo.cnn

And a story why!
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/14/cheating.death.harden.cpr/index.html

Hock

[Wild Bill]

That's interesting.  I am going to have to look into this more.  I was certified last April and the American Heart Association class was still teaching rescue breaths.  I am wondering what the liability issues would be involved.  My gut tells me that I should continue doing things the way I was trained. 

[Hock]

Actually - and it is here somewhere else - the mouth-to-mouth has been dropped for CPR. Kick starting the heart being the main, first mission.

My gut instinct is to investigate it further too, then fix your local training if it needs fixing.

Let me see where else this is listed...

Hock

[Hock]

"In a bold departure from standard practice, paramedics in most Arizona cities do not follow the guidance of the American Heart Association. Instead, they follow a protocol that was developed at the University of Arizona's Sarver Heart Center, largely by Dr. Gordon Ewy..."
http://www.cdnn.info/news/safety/s080325.html


The Demise of Rescue Breathing in CPR. Studies published in the American Journal of Medicine and The Lancet have indicated better survival rates for victims of cardiac arrest resuscitated by lay rescuers and EMS professionals using chest compressions only...
http://firstaid.about.com/od/cprbasics/i/07_nobreathcpr_2.htm



It's rather new and the web is just full of the old way. The old ways have been searched on way too much and news on the new way is somewhat overshadowed. I recall when the new method was broadcast on the big news channels, not that long ago...

Hock

[Adventure]

This as been out there for a while now. At least '05 if not later. I heard from JEMS (journal of Emergency Medical Services) magazine that there was research in Japan on this topic.

When EMS switched our ACLS guide lines in 05 I was hearing about the "no breathing CPR in 04.

Makes sense - When you compress the chest you create a negative pressure in the chest cavity which in turn pulls air in through an open airway.

Other research is show that we EMS & lay person over ventilate a lot and this has bad outcomes for patients.

We are slowly moving are breathing rates down....it was 12-20, then 10-12, now they want to see 6-8 for EMS, but mostly 6 breaths per minute.

[Canuk]

I have heard about that no breath as well, several years in fact. I just reserted as a medical first responsder hmmm two weeks ago and we are going with 30:2. Thats 30 compressions and two breath

[Hock]

Back to the brain.
The brain needs oxygen.
Rescue breaths do not supply this in critical moments.
Blood is a lot of oxygen in it. It needs to be moved around to the brain.
A pumping heart supplies this.

I think it will be a matter of slow time before all the slow-moving, stodgy, slow attorneys and slow administrators hear of this and sign on.

Just like the ice water emersion of heart attack victims is a common sense, successful treatment, yet few hospitals do this. The hospitals that do report a whopping sucess. We reported on this abotu a year ago and it is somewhere on the forum.

Hock

[Hock]

Coincidentally, this last weekend CNN and Koopta just did a news segment on this issue.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/21/cardiac.arrest.parade/index.html.
Forget the breath and go for the pump.
The film clip was very interesting...

Hock

[Hepcat]

We have been instructing 30:2 for about two years.  I teach Push hard, push fast and push often on the chest and no pulse check beyond your initial assessment as most lay rescuers waste far too much time looking for a pulse.

With the price of AED's dropping (down to around $1800.00 here) we are including their use in our one day courses as well as our advanced programs.

I am attending an Emergency Medical Responder Instructors course in December and look forward to see what the Red Cross and others have to say on the new CPR "standard"

[Joe Hubbard]

I recently recertified and it was 30:2.  These training course are often slightly behind the curve.

Joe

[grlaun]

It 30:2 in the Academy in June.  It was considered the latest method & as Joe stated the courses are slightly behind the curve.

[Hock]

Like all good change...

"I think it will be a matter of slow time before all the slow-moving, stodgy, slow attorneys and slow administrators hear of this and sign on."

Would not want life-saving improvement instituted too quickly.

I wish I could film the Gupta CNN film clip where they interviewed EMTs in Arizona who'd had and were arriving on scenes with a 97% fatality rate and were game to try to promote anything. Couldn't get much worse. The no-stop-for-rescue-breath has improved the results there quite a bit.

Hock

[Canuk]

 '97% fatality rate and were game to try anything" If thats what they said this is a misleading statement if the heart isn't beating when you get there then they are already dead and you are trying to bring them back to life.  You have arrived and found the paitent to be VSA, you haven't failed to keep them alive because they are already dead.

[Hock]

You have to watch the CNN clip. I am doing a poor recap on what was said.

But It makes perfect sense and soon? You will be dropping the rescue breaths.
It makes perfect sense.

Here's another video clip
http://www.freedomslighthouse.com/2009/10/cnns-dr-sanjay-gupta-shows-actor.html
Statistics mentioned here.

Hock

[Canuk]

Betwen you me and the fense post i dont use rescue breath anyway. Ill bag them. To me rescue breath puts me too close to a disease or someone who is going to bite me. I teach a tactical first responder program. Its all based on offier saftey and tactical appraoch and position and not your typical first aid response.