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[Hock]

Every five to ten years we get a new age group on the horizon....usually 20 to 30 years old. They is a new "spate" of young folks on the scene that are trying to further and further hone "reality" programs about fighting. These are present in series after series of new group/person webpages. (all of which I think is a good movement, by the way...keep experimenting...keep moving on....)

First we know these guys are actually against most martial arts programs to begin with, even though they dabble in all forms of them according to their resumes. Its a prejudice. They never really complete any one system to say...a black belt level - unless they took Tae Kwon Do in their teens. Otherwise they dabble.

One subject that most of these new reality "young-ens' " seem to bring up in their "what we do" web page sections is proclaiming how they FINALLY know the "real" truth on knife training. I keep seeing the idea brought up amongst them that:

                              "There is no such thing as knife fighting."

You see they think that “knife fighting” in this context is knife dueling. But it ain’t. WEEELLLL, if I am being attacked and I have a knife in hand and fighting back? I am fighting with a knife and/or "knife fighting." You do not need to be college, english major to understand the definitions or the semantics to understand the simple points. And as almost all police officers will tell you, they are dispatched to “knife fights” where one or more people are “fighting with knives.” Therefore, there ...”are such things as knife fights. They do exist in our universe, grasshopper.”

I think what they are actually trying to criticize is the pure idea of knife dueling. More in particular, an unhealthy, over-emphasis on knife-versus-knife dueling, or big knife dueling as presented in a martial arts sort of way. It is different in many ways to a modern knife-versus-knife fight, and then...not so different.

Over-doing knife dueling in a hard-core reality system is what I call a “Myth of the Duel” mistake. The key word being “over-doing.” For example, I think that knife ground-fighting should be practiced way more than knife-versus-knife dueling. But there is no escaping the fact that a modern knife combatives program must include aspects of “Showdown knife dueling” or the course will be incomplete from a doctrine standpoint.

They are young, confused in their verbiage, ill-informed on the big picture.

Hock

[arnold]

As are all Obama supporters!

[juszczec]

As are all Obama supporters!

HEY

I've been studying Hock's stuff for the last 3 years and I voted for Obama.

This year we are (if the health club doesn't freak out) adding mixed weapons sparring to our curriculum.

;-)

[Dawg]

One subject that most of these new reality "young-ens' " seem to bring up in their "what we do" web page sections is proclaiming how they FINALLY know the "real" truth on knife training. I keep seeing the idea brought up amongst them that:

                              "There is no such thing as knife fighting."
Hock

I've also seen this same statement from a not-so-young-en. As you said, semantics. Then they (and he) tend to go on and on about mind set, and how if you don't just turn around and run when confronted by a knife wielding attacker, you're just gonna have to DIE because you just can't possibly survive with your lack of knowledge, skill and experience in this violent form of combat.

And yet, untrained people do manage to survive these encounters. Hmmm...

I guess you've just spoiled me over the years. You never claim to have THE answer, but, "Hey, here's a cool trick that might help you out of a bad spot."  It's not "If you don't run from a knife attack, you're gonna die!", instead it's "What if you're the only thing between the bad guys and your family, are you gonna run? Can you? Here's a couple of things that might work."

I'm with you on evolving. We need new eyes, new blood and new perspectives so we don't become stagnant or complacent. I just don't want to regress, and, honestly, some of these guys just really piss me off.

I know, I know, "Patience, young grasshopper." I'm almost 50, isn't that when the patience thing kicks in?

Keep up the great work, Hock. Maybe the young-ens will catch on.

[Canuk]

I usually counter with "so if i had a gun and was shooting at you, that wouldnt be a gun fight?"

[shastana]

I've had about six or so knife attack experiences.  The one time I ran, it was really dark, ran down a wooded hill and at the last second tripped and turned.  I ended up grabbing the weapon limb and pulling him down prone.  Lucky I tripped otherwise I would've been stabbed in the neck area from behind!  Running does not ensure survival, it increases the chances of just being stabbed in the back, and decreases your chances of defending yourself.  Fuck running!

The other times attacks were in close from sides and I was able to grab the weapon limb and either counter-attack to the face or throw/pull them down in 2 on 1.  Two times, there were more than one of them, but only one knife pulled, and I did have to maneuver to avoid the knife slashing at my neck level.  But I never ran again, I had to swallow the panic and fight!

Lastly, only once did I have my own blade and I never even got to draw my own knife, just enough time to respond!  It seems whenever I had my blade and it was visible, nothing ever happened.

[whitewolf]

Shastana-glad you survived- what you said about not pulling the knife goes to show that when attacked from close quarters it is better to fight than attempt to draw-the quickness of counter attack hopefully will beat  the attackers strikes. Then use continuous motion to overcome.

WW (ELB)  "speed of light"

[shastana]

WW-Its funny, every time I was attacked, I was scoped out before hand.  When I had a blade visible, no problem.  Same went with being shot at in road rage incident, the guy got a look inside my jeep and realized he had the hand cannon.  Being scoped was a major deal, so you tried to show off your metal or at least show access to an improvised.

As far as responding, with blade in pocket, the best carry is in my jacket pocket in-hand.  But that aint going to pass a PA.  So, on the belt or clip on pocket it goes.  When I did have it, I was late to a late response, the guy on my 8 O clock rushed me and I stepped/dodged back and away from him, the tip caught my peck but barely.  It was grab that limb or get fillet going for mine.  Beach town, lots of gangs and drugs, and babes....you had to be ready at home, at work, out, wherever. 

[whitewolf]

shastana- sorry i did not respond till now- time goes by when you are having fun-actually i started my self defense school plus workin part time-interesting about the carry you talk about and how you have to react and get the hell out of the way /grabbing the blade-not trying to get your weapon out -as u say u dont want to get filleted like a fish-so how do practise defense> do u do a defense and just go over and over it?

ww (elb) "speed of light"

[shastana]

WW-glad to hear you are starting up a program.  I am following close behind and will be up and running in '10.   I think I understand your question to be how do I train against knife?

Well, I was talking about my experiences, and I think that my analysis of what happened has led me to two basic ideas. 

1-you see the event before it happens and you can do something about it.  Includes showing that you are aware with eye contact, re-positioning, carrying a visible blade, etc.  This reduces the late phase probability and increases your chance of knife on knife.

or

2-you respond to something moving at you instinctively, have no time to react but to dodge it and retaliate without accessing your weapon right away.   If you are being held up, that is a different scenario, you are usually out numbered or they have moved in close with knife.  You can't draw your knife right away in this scenario either due to the ambush.

I think training both ideas are good to drill over and over and over.  Training to grab the limb is critical, so is dodging and retaliating.  So is using vision and learning to sense in your blind spots. 

When we spent a lot of time at bonfire parties at the beach, there was just a lot of stuff going on.  It was hard to see outside the fire sight.  One time we were approached by a group of 4 bangers from Oakland, wanting to hang with the ladies in our group.  Words were exchanged and I can still feel the blood from my buddy Brit splatter across my face as he was slashed across his upper arm when he dodged an outward slash to his throat.  It was so fast and took me by fckn surprise. It was just so fast I barely saw the slash! Needless to say the cup of vodka I was holding ended up in the guys face and I grabbed the guys limb while Brit just pounded this guy.  Shortly after, they were surrounded, even the ladies were using their bottles to smack these guys over their heads. They were out of there as quickly as they came.

So, my experience is that unless you have your knife in hand, or train to quickly draw your blade, you can expect that all your attention and impulse will be on avoiding or grabbing that limb.

[whitewolf]

Excellent response-thanks-to talk a little more-to be honest i never have been attacked with a actual knife- only almost had my face ripped open with a opponent swinging his barrel of a 9mm at me and i blocked-and almost broke his wrist-point is watching-reacting-geting in close-and beating him to the punch so to speak..

I am a firm believer of practising over and over the tactic for the day-slowly at first to show what can go wrong and how to go from step one  to step 4 immediately (hope that makes sense to you).

If you are close in studying how to beat the opponent is paramount before one draws a weapon from a pocket/holster/belt.

After conducting a lot of studying on what i call immediate action I have instituted Hocks block the clock (all 12 positions) at the start of each class. The students
are shown how to add "continous motion" to each block- includes other  palm to face-or repeated punching or adding locking the arm up and going into sweep.

appreciate comments from others

keep in touch-stay  safe- WW (ELB) "speed of  light"

[mickt]

What up fella's and what ever else crawls around here,

19 years ago just out of high school (and yes a 1st dan in TKD) I was confronted by a guy with a blade in a philadelpia  just outside the TKD school I was associated with, anyway, as he's trying to poke me I took off my shirt and tried to knock the knife out of his hand, I didn't think of  any kicking-blocking and or what ever else I learned,  in all nothing happened a few guys came to back me up and dude fled, since then I have been in the filipino arts for aleast 15 years, Shirt Hmmmm.. Sarong.... I wonder, will never know, Be safe my brothers

[Remo]

As are all Obama supporters!

Ya got THAT right!