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[Brian S]

I've rather charitably refrained from reminding our little gun lobby here of the dangers of gun ownership.  In fact I've let wuite a few recent gun murders in the uS fly by withut comment......

But here's another to start us off in this new year

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8471485.stm

Virginia suspect 'hid explosives' 
 
The suspect was brought to state police headquarters in Appomattox
Police say they have found a "multitude" of explosives at a home in the US state of Virginia where eight people were shot on Tuesday.

Bomb experts searched the rural property after the suspect in the shootings gave himself up after an all-night manhunt.

Police say they are exploding the devices hidden both in and outside the suspect's house.

Medical examiners will try to identify the victims once the area is secured.

'Weapons-trained'

The suspect is reported to have been personally acquainted with the victims.

The man, named as Christopher Speight, 39, turned himself in at about 0710 (1210 GMT) after an all-night stand-off with police, who had surrounded woodland just outside the town of Appomattox.

The local sheriff said Mr Speight was wearing a bullet-proof vest when he surrendered, but was not armed and did not need any medical attention.

Sheriff O Wilson Staples said the suspect had shot at a helicopter which had been called to the scene, hitting its fuel tanks and forcing it to land.

Police are still searching for the high-powered rifle he is believed to have used. The sheriff said that based on the weapons found in the house, it was likely the suspect had been trained in the use of firearms.

'Motive unclear'

Mr Speight has been taken to Appomattox regional jail, pending charges.

A spokesman for Virginia's governor said the suspect was being debriefed and was being very co-operative, although a motive for the shooting was still being investigated.

News of the shootings broke on Tuesday afternoon and everyday life in the area was paralysed, with local schools closing down as police hunted for the gunman.

The authorities were first alerted when they received a call about an injured person lying in the middle of a road.

When a deputy arrived at the scene, he heard gunfire and called for back-up.

The injured man was taken to hospital where he died of his wounds.

Police from across the state were brought into the densely wooded area, which is about 100 miles (160km) south-west of Virginia's capital, Richmond.

Police dogs and a National Guard helicopter with thermal imaging equipment were used to search the woods.

Local connections

Mr Speight is the co-owner of the house in Snapps Mill Road, where the first reported victim was found.

He also owns a large tract of land next to the house.

The Washington Post quoted local officials as saying two of the dead were believed to be his wife and son.

Police found three bodies inside the house and another four outside. The eighth victim was the man found injured in the street.

County Administrator Aileen Ferguson said it was one of the worst mass killings in Virginia's history, "probably the worst since the Virginia Tech killings in 2007", when a student shot 32 people .

 


One of the worst mass killings?  How many have they had?

Anyways, what are the gun laws in this state? 

[Hock]

A whole lot of Virginia is very rural, so the state has pretty normal gun laws. Not unusual. On the north side is Washington DC that battles things like pistol ownership, yet has huge gun crime. Down south and west can be pretty rural.  West Virginia to the west is COUNTRY with capital letters! Lots of hunting and guns.

Richmond, VA has had a huge gun crime rate. Bad hoods. Lots of murders.

Here's the deal though, the guns are already there. You cannot control them. You cannot collect them. You cannot control the populace. This kind of shit happens, and that's that. In a state of millions of people and millions of guns, some people die every year. This incident is a drop in the bucket compared to the typical crimes.

Hock

[whitewolf]

I agree with Hock-millons of people millions of legal guns-
as i have said- I live in Tn-some criminals kill with weapons-many are killed or scared off due to the good conceled carry laws here-
The NRA sticker is seen on one hell of a lot of car windows
WW

[Brian S]

I know they cannot be controlled.  But don't things like this pinch at the credibility of the "guns keep people safe" argument?

[whitewolf]

In the US anti gun people always use a shooting to expound on their feelings-but the truth is that without people being allowed to carry a weapon in the US we probably would have a lot more killings -if one checks the NRA magazine they would see how many home envasions/strong arm robbieres /car jackings/and of course police officers were saved due to our type laws.
"self defense"-without our current laws we would be overrun with the jackels (evil ones)
hurting us-as the police cannot be everywhere it is up to the civilian population of the USA to protect our loved ones-
hope i am not going overboard on this subject-
whitewolf (ELB) "speed of light"

[Joe Hubbard]

I know they cannot be controlled.  But don't things like this pinch at the credibility of the "guns keep people safe" argument?

It doesn't say whether or not his victims were armed.  If they had been they would have had a better chance in upholding the principle of "guns keeping people safe."

[Hock]

Department of Justice stats change each year but it runs from 60% to 70% of the time someone is confronted by a criminal, and that "victim" produces a gun or a knife, the bad guy leaves.

No designation on knife or gun. No designation on the type of "aproaching" crime. And I have no idea how they glean these numbers. Could be better, could even be worse. But my guess is they are in the ballpark. Because I have worked some of these cases, hear about other cases and studies.

One such group of studies is on decades from the FBI. FBI interviews of prisoners always produce the same results that if the criminal knows the potential victim is armed, or the house they will invade has guns, they pick another victim or house.

But now the Feds tell us that 80% of all crime in the USA is gang-related. This is a huge number that I cannot grasp. I don't know how this could be. But I think it means that a new huge population of young, uneducated, brain-washed "kids" are carrying guns and we do know that they are less afraid of police and people who are also carrying guns. We are then stuck with getting more guns to prepare against that. This cycle will never end because the guns are here already. To believe they can be removed for a better world is like Obama wanting to remove our nuke missiles while Russia, North Korea, Iran and terrorists are building them.

But anyway, about 8 million people live in VA. 42,774.2 square miles. One day last week 8 people out of that 8 milion were shot in a single incident.

Hock

[redfive]

If someone is shot and seeks medical attention, it has to be reported. So everyshooting is basically reported. The self defence shootings are usually not reported by the media. And there most likely is a larger amount of people who defend themselves with a gun that do not report it. I have pulled my gun several times over the years and have never gone crying to the police. Why bother. I didn't need them, they were not there. If I did report it. I would end up with writers cramp from having to fill out the report and going through the interrogation.
 My question is why are other countries so concerned with our gun laws. If people wont to bitch about guns and people getting killed go to  the Mexican border towns, go to the Congo, sierra Leone, Burma. Or how about the Middle east itself were it seems in every cave and under ever neighbor hood there is a stash of guns and rpgs. Yet know one cries about guns in these third world shit holes were hundreds of people are shot everyday.
  The United States is probably the only country that terrorist wont run a jihad down the local streets or attach a neighbor hood. We shoot back. There are local hunters that have rifles that could down a helicopter. If any force gets past our national guard, the local citizens can protect themselves and will. This by the way is how we gained our freedom from the very country that's seems to do the most bitching about our guns.

       Godbless the USA and the Country of TEXAS

                                                                        Redfive

ps: Just saw the post on the knife forum were a 18 year old was stabbed to death in the UK. But what about there gun control, that's supposed to make everyone safer? So what about that Brian S. OOO don't they have strict knife control to. Hell nobody should be getting killed in the UK. you wont to stop the killing. You need to get rid of the people not the weapons. But give the good guys a fighting chance against the bad guys who will always have a weapon, legally or illegally.

[Mr. Barnett]

I am armed.  deal with it.  even unarmed, I'm considered armed by my friends around me.  Does that make people uncomfortable?   If so, why?   Do authorities license and regulate "martial arts" in some  countries?    Allowing them to prosper, and not counting them out as a religion or cult, as long as the material is limited in scope and depth?  Is the "martial arts" a ploy?   No matter, America is young.  It's still the frontier, and it won't be tamed by Europe, or European attitudes.  Monarchies could never bear an armed population.  Why is that?  Do they know something that we do not?  It's not about guns, It's about liberty.

Mr. Barnett

[Brian S]

redfive - yes, knife crime still makes the news in the UK.  It is a big deal because.... it is still pretty rare.  So it makes the headlines.  In the US?  It's barely page 10 stuff, as there is so much gun crime.

Mr Barnett -

"I am armed.  deal with it.  even unarmed, I'm considered armed by my friends around me."

Well why arm yourself then, you Kung Fu Killer you...... Tell me you're joking.  That's the corniest thing I have ever read!  haw Haw Haw!

Back to topic - Just how can you all twist and turn so much?  How many peole ar going to get killed with guns in the US before you come to consider the faint possibility that guns aren't such a safety measure after all?

 

[Hock]

I know its hard to figure for a foreigner.
Its even hard for someone from a very liberal state to come to a gun state and see the laws. Truth is there is about the same amount of crime everyone. Places where guns have been banned have huge gun crime.

I think under the circumstances having them is better than not. Millions and millions of people. Millions of guns. Miniscule problems in comparison.
 
Hock

[Hock]

Continued here with Oath Keepers...
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,5822.0.html

[Professor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCHtw6WbbnM

Uncle Teddy for those that need to be edumicated.

[Professor]

Bri Thai,

go back and answer questions that you have been asked before and refuse to answer before you start stirring another pot of shit.

[Brian S]

I'm not stirring anything.  Jest keeping up with what seems to be everyday US news.

It's so safe out there........