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  • February 08, 2012, 04:28:01 PM
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Author Topic: Here we go again  (Read 3541 times)

metz57

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2010, 03:51:12 PM »

Mick,

Are you saying America has more murders because they have more guns? Isn’t that over simplifying things? How would you explain the very low murder rate in Switzerland where every man over 18 has an assault rifle in the house by law?

Hasn’t Britain and America got a higher number of murders than Switzerland because we have more murders? All the statistics people use, both for, and against gun control seem to be contradictory and there doesn’t seem to be a definite correlation one way or the other. To me that suggests that it’s not the guns that are the problem it’s the people.

I live in England and wouldn’t carry a gun even if I could. I don’t feel the need. If, in the future I move back to Northern Ireland I would want the option of being armed. If you had to live in N.I. would you want the option?

Metz
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Mick Coup

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2010, 04:54:29 PM »

My main point is that the UK is not a 'nanny state' full of scared unarmed citizens, who need guns to protect themselves.

Also, the apparent 'safety' of the could-be armed US citizen doesn't seem to match the statistics.  Easy to say '...the states that have CCW have low crime rates' but what about the armed police that are confronted and shot on a regular basis in this case?  Doesn't tend to happen over here.  

As you say, it is the people that are the problem - and Switzerland has an admirable record - but the UK and US are very close culturally and we don't have the regular shootings because guns are hard to come by in the UK, compared to the prevalence in the US.

Switzerland actually has very strict gun ownership laws, all males have military service experience and ammo purchases are registered with the government - incidentally, it's quite ironic, due to their widespread ownership, that guns are used in domestic violence in Switzerland far more frequently than in the United States.

Mick




« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 05:06:14 PM by Mick Coup »
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shastana

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2010, 06:06:19 PM »

Mick-I understand your viewpoint, but only thru my American culture.  So, of coarse I will have an American opinion.  Nanny state is a country that looks to its all-knowing and powerful government to solve its problems.  That is how it appears to be from over here.  Surrendered your right to bear arms?  You look to your government to protect you from armed criminal elements.  That be a Nanny state. 

But I have to say the the US and Britain are not alike culturally or otherwise.  We are very large, diverse, and have a lot more problems on magnitudes a smaller country such as England has to deal with.  England is 1/5th the population and the size of Oregon, our 10th largest state.  Bigger picture, Americans are traditionally more self-reliant, and self protection is no different.  Cops show up AFTER the violent event, rarely during, and never before.  You depend on your own defensive measures as defined by the 2nd Amendment.  Can't relate?  That's understandable too.

And suprisingly, only 14,000 American people actually die in some kind of gun-related event here.  So, we will live with those numbers, because if it wasn't guns, it would be pipe bombs, knives, gas bombs, other crazy shit like that you'd need to keep yourself protected.  Point is, there is a much larger factor of crime and criminal elements at work from all over the world, not to mention the racial gang power that dominates entire cities.  It is not your cheerio tea drinking nation.  It is more tense in some areas.  I know good cops who tell me they don't want to pull over suspects because they get shot at in certain areas.  Different world, one that is hard to wrap your head around. 

And to think that the gvt, with a stroke of a pen outlawing all guns, adding more law enforcement or laws will tame the beast, is to wish for a pot of gold.  It ain't gonna happen, the urban war has been on since the 60's and there is no end in sight.  Add deteriorating Mexico as your siamese twin bordering you, and you have a world where protection is an issue in certain parts of the good old US.  Too many people, lots of resources, not enough money or personnel to even come close to taming the beast I'm afraid.  So....you adapt.  You stick with the best defensive tools you can get your hands on.

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An armed citizenry fly their colors, an unarmed citizenry wear their colors.

Hock

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2010, 06:12:50 PM »

But what is your quick solution to this problem and the millions and millions of guns that are already dispersed here?

Because you know if they pass a law tomorrow banning guns it would be utterly impossible to uphold from coast to coast. What would you suggest? Because it is a deep culture here. Its a small arms race within a country. They got em' so we need em'. AND the country is FULL of well...country-folk...millions of them. In really, rural areas where you need guns around the house to shoot animals, snakes etc, big and small. 300 million people. Millions and millions of guns, and in comparison, very, very little problem with them.

Hock
(I think the so-called "nanny state" here in the USA means cradle-to-grave government supervision, supported by blistering taxes. But on the subject of nannies, I saw a small anecdotle example when I was in London last time and two Metro police women were in trouble because each one babby-sat their kids (two kids) while the other worked on another shift. This was against the -oh, what was it - like nanny/babysitting/child-care law or something like that. They had to be registered and licensed ($$$) to babysit (and pay fees) under a certain times and hours per week, etc. The women were suspended form the police! Anyway, I thought it was such a weird, ironic, odd example of goverment fingering into private lives in an actually nanny case where nanny-ing itself was actually involved. In the morning talk show, a indignant, angry government rep was there scathing the women for not following the law. We fear those lines being crossed here every day here, too, as liberals try to register, control and tax everything!)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 07:24:32 PM by Hock »
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shastana

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2010, 06:57:28 PM »

It just gets old hearing the "how dare you love guns" lecture from our "fellow countrymen" from England.  Its like lecturing your buddy on how shitty he handles his business.  Thanks for your concerns, but don't worry about it...we'll deal with it.   Cowboy Up!
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Mick Coup

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2010, 04:51:31 AM »

Nanny state - are not all developed nations with established governments part of this, according to you?  Do you not have a standing military machine to do your fighting for you?  How about professional law enforcement to keep the peace and maintain order?  Are you telling me that the US doesn't have a bunch of elected officials that make decisions for the bigger-picture well-being of the whole country? 

What is the alternative to this terrible 'nanny state' I wonder?  Selfish anarchy perhaps, where every man can do exactly as he wants? 

All this nonsense about the US being some sort of 'frontier' nation - not any more I'm glad to say, I'd go more with highly-developed first-world superpower, hardly the 'Wild West' in actual fact - though it seems that plenty harbour not-so-secret 'Red Dawn/Jericho' fantasies, where as an 'armed militia' they can put all their guns to good use...

As for my 'quick fix' solution - when did I ever say that I had one?  I don't believe that there is one at all, but it's nice to hear someone actually admit that there is a gun problem amidst all the finger pointing.

I fully accept the different cultures that make guns unnecessary over here, but necessary over there,  I have no issue with loving guns, I don't have an issue with gun ownership at all - never said that I did.  Our cultures are a lot more similar in comparison than the divide that exists with our European neighbours - such as Switzerland for instance.

We used to be an armed nation, wasn't that long ago - to us - that carrying a revolver was fairly commonplace for the private individual, and the only laws that governed such behaviour were to not murder people with them, or you'd be in trouble.  Just like there were never laws to specifically outlaw drunken driving, it wasn't illegal like it is now, neither were speed limits in place on our motorways for a long time - all laws brought into being to safeguard citizens after problems were identified.  Don't suppose you have such 'nanny state' laws over in the US do you?

I stand by my points earlier regarding the active shooter problem.  In my lifetime there have been only two instances to the best of my knowledge, only two within over four decades.  After the first, in Hungerford, laws were introduced that restricted military-style assault rifles - seems to have sorted that problem out as there hasn't been another incident, and after the second, in Dunblane, additional laws restricted large calibre/capacity handgun ownership - not been a repeat incident since either.

Somehow we appear to be criticised for this?  The US has a serious gun problem - you even admit this on occasion - but points a finger at us and condemns us for not having access to guns?  How is this cover-both-bases argument plausible?  You seem to dismiss the thousands of gun murders as being a tiny percentage - nothing to worry about - on the one hand, but find reference to a single murder with a gun, or knife, on UK soil, and all of a sudden this is a big deal that proves we cannot defend ourselves and are a land of victims.  Outrageous, hypocritical, and plain ignorant.  As for thinking that the UK is a 'cheerio tea drinking nation' then please refer to the preceeding three superlatives - got a passport?  Ever used it?

Brian S will be able to supply more facts than me, but I can only recall a handful, at the most, of incidents where police officers have been shot dead - or shot at all even - and terrorists from Ireland and Libya were mainly responsible for these, not the standard criminals that commit such acts within the US on a regular basis.

Our farmers over here have utility guns for dealing with wildlife, as have gamekeepers - these are not the guns I am drawing attention to at all, but the weapons that a minority of US citizens feel obliged to own, that somehow they cannot live without and that - apparently - we are weak and vulnerable without.  Not so.  Not even close - nation of victim sheeple?  Fine....but what does that make those that need to be armed, all of the time, just to feel safe?

My issue is simple - I'm not pointing any fingers, I have no 'concern' at all and I really don't worry about the problem either - it's yours after all.  Bear this in mind though, I'm simply responding to those fingers and ridiculous claims pointed at me. 

As for what rhetoric 'gets old'  - frankly it really 'gets old' indeed being lectured on how being sober is a problem, by a raging alcoholic.

'Cowboy up' indeed, seems that some of you need to - even if the rest don't.  We don't, and we'll deal with it just fine.

Mick

Hock

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2010, 08:42:59 AM »

It is what it is.

And a tiny percentage of gun crime will continue, in comparison to the huge population and huge numbers of guns.

On the subject of the occasional shooting in England being tiresome, we also TIRE to hear international commentary when one guy shoots four people in an office, in a city of 8 million people, in a state the size of England, that 300 million Americans are unsafe, crazy gun-mongers and the general "what is wrong with the gun-crazed country."
(I know plenty of plenty of Europeans who vacation in Canada because they fear the gun crime in the USA.)

Actually given the amount of guns here, amount of police, and amount of people, we do a superb job of keeping statistics amazing, quite, quite low. With amazing drops some years. As does the UK in relative percentages.

The elusive "big picture" is usually lost in almost every debate on every subject. The suggestion for a solution to cases of say, rabies, or the flu, or illegal parking on a grand scale of of "problems."  Right now our biggest problem is the 1960s "Woodstock" generation, now in suits, trying to control every step of our American life and economy, which is, in essence, our own "nanny-state problem." Its a citizen issue, not a military issue, or just a gun issue.

On a sliding scale EVERYTHING is a problem of control or no control. At which point does the control start or stop? At what point on the scale does the "Nanny meter" bell sound?

Hock
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 08:44:50 AM by Hock »
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Mr. Barnett

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2010, 10:24:39 AM »

Just one month of "gun activity".  watch out for them air guns!
This is Croydon Today, 5 February 2010

Two boys aged 14 have both been sentenced to 30 months detention following a gunpoint raid on a shop in Shirley, south London, in July 2009.  One of the boys pointed an imitation shotgun at an employee before making off with £200.  Both had pleaded guilty to robbery and possession of an imitation gun.

Lancashire Telegraph, 5 February 2010

A BB gun was among a haul of weapons were found during a raid on a house in the Bank Top area of Blackburn, Lancashire.  Cannabis was also discovered.  Two men were given cautions as there was no evidence that the weapons had been used in the street.

This is Somerset, 4 February 2010

A man from Yeovil, Somerset, is on trial facing four charges of rape, one of kidnap, one of false imprisonment and two of assault by penetration.  He has admitted possession of a prohibited firearm, a sawn-off shotgun.  Another man, who denies possessing the sawn-off shotgun, is alleged to have allowed him to store the gun at the farm in West Coker where he lived.

This is Derbyshire, 4 February 2010

Two men have been charged with drugs and firearms offences following a raid at a house in Ilkeston, Derbyshire.  A shotgun and quantities of suspected cannabis and ecstasy were recovered from the house during the raid in January 2010.

Sleaford Standard, 4 February 2010

A former RAF policeman and gun enthusiast had live ammunition and three illegal pistols stored at his home in Sleaford, Lincolnshire.  Police also found over 200 imitation weapons inside the property which had been bought from a website linked to illegal weapons.  Mark Owens admitted three charges of possessing a prohibited weapon and a further charge of illegal possession of ammunition in May 2008.  His shotgun certificate had been suspended.  He was given a 12 month conditional discharge and ordered to pay costs.  The judge accepted that Owens had inadvertently broken the law and was surprised to discover the pistols were prohibited weapons.  The ammunition had been retained from his RAF days.

Royston Crow, 4 February 2010

Trains had to be halted for more than an hour after a man was spotted pointing a rifle at a train near Odsey, Hertfordshire.  Drivers raised the alert.  Police officers eventually discovered a number of armed men attending a legal shooting party hunting rabbits and other game on nearby farmland.  The party was spoken to and given advice of walking near railway lines with weapons and never to point weapons at trains.

Prestwich & Whitefield Guide, 4 February 2010

A robber pointed a handgun at a cashier at a service station in Prestwich, Manchester.  The man grabbed £150 before sprinting off.  The cashier ran after him and cornered him but the man escaped.

Liverpool Echo, 4 February 2010

A bookmaker's in the centre of Liverpool has been targeted for the second time in less than two weeks.  A man threatened staff with what appeared to be a black and silver handgun and forced them to open the safe.  He fled on foot with a substantial amount of money.

Hornsey & Crouch End Journal, 4 February 2010

Four young men went into a bank in Highgate, north London, and told staff they had a gun, but none was seen.  They fled within seconds and police refused to say whether they left empty-handed.

Hemel Today, 4 February 2010

Manuel Clark has been sentenced to nine-and-a-half years after handing over a shotgun in a pub car park in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, to an undercover police officer to whom he had also supplied drugs.  He pleaded guilty to selling or transferring a shotgun, having a firearm and ammunition in a public place and drugs offences.  George Webb who was also involved in trying to get a gun and dealt in drugs and counterfeit clothing received seven-and-a-half years after pleading guilty to aiding and abetting the transfer of a firearm and other offences, and Allan Clarke who brought the gun from his home to the car park was jailed for three years after admitting conspiracy to sell or transfer a firearm and having a firearm and ammunition in a public place.

Gainsborough Standard, 4 February 2010

A railway worker was shot with an airgun whilst working on tracks near the station in Gainsborough, Lincolnshire.  He had to undergo surgery after a pellet became lodged in his arm.

Dorset Echo, 4 February 2010

A farmer was shot at twice as he tried to stop three raiders at his property in Buckland Newton, Dorset.  Men with torches were spotted in the yard and when he confronted them they shot at him and hit a car windscreen with a .22 rifle.  It is thought that nothing was stolen.

Crain's Manchester Business, 4 February 2010

Live ammunition and an imitation firearm were among items seized during raids in Manchester and Cheshire which led to six people being arrested on suspicion of stealing more than £2m via a VAT repayment fraud.

Bolton News, 4 February 2010

A man has been charged with possession of prohibited ammunition, possession of a prohibited firearm and five other charges after a gun and ammunition were found at a house in Bolton, Greater Manchester.  The handgun and 50 rounds of live ammunition were recovered by Bolton's Organised Crime Unit.  Three other people were arrested and bailed.

Watford Observer, 3 February 2010

A man from Watford, Hertfordshire, charged with possession of a "rifle style gun" and criminal damage to a car will appear in court later this month.  He is alleged to have carried the firearm with the intention of leading a member of the public to believe "unlawful violence" would be used against him or another person.

Wandsworth Guardian, 3 February 2010

Ian Stephens from Battersea Rise, south London, who was one of four people convicted for cocaine smuggling was also found to have a stun gun.  He was jailed for 10 years.

Uxbridge Gazette, 3 February 2010

Armed police went to Permanent Joint Headquarters, which houses NATO personnel, in Northwood, west London, after reports that men with guns were lurking in the grounds.  A man and a teenage boy, who were armed with an airgun, had been hunting squirrels.  They were not arrested as they were in a public place and had not committed a crime but were warned about their actions in future.

Times, 3 February 2010

A handgun, a Baikal 9mm pistol, has been recovered at a further education college in Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey, during a police search of a student.  A silencer was found at his home.  A youth was arrested on suspicion of possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life and possession with intent to supply cannabis.

Saffron Walden Weekly News, 3 February 2010

Armed robbers, one brandishing a gun, burst into a convenience store in Elsenham, Essex.  It is not know how much money they got away with.

Haringey Independent, 3 February 2010

Michael Michaelides threatened staff at a travel agent's in Muswell Hill, north London, with a pistol in November 2009 (see Incidents).  He grabbed fistfuls of cash but was caught red-handed.  He admitted robbery and possession of a firearm and was given an indeterminate jail sentence and must serve at least five years.

Evening Gazette, 3 February 2010

Duncan Quinn showed a black pistol to men in black hoods in Lingdale, Cleveland, in June 2009.  The incident was the culmination of a feud with his partner's ex who believed Quinn had damaged his car.  Quinn was on bail at the time.  He has admitted possessing an imitation firearm with intent to cause fear of violence and dangerous driving.  His previous convictions included an affray when he had fired an air rifle, narrowly missing someone's eye.  He was jailed for eighteen months.

Evening Chronicle, 3 February 2010

Two men armed with suspected ammonia and a handgun targeted a bank in Gateshead, Tyneside.  They escaped with a large sum of cash after spraying the cashier with a noxious liquid.  Detectives say it is not know whether the handgun was real or a replica.  The raid took place last month.

Lancashire Telegraph, 2 February 2010

Police found cannabis plants and a rifle at a pub in Darwen, Lancashire.  A firearm charge against the landlady and her partner was later dropped after it was found to be a souvenir.

Herald (Plymouth), 2 February 2010

Police were called to an incident in Stonehouse, Plymouth, by a man who claimed that he had been shot.  A man had to undergo surgery for two chest wounds believed to have been caused by an air weapon.

Haringey Independent, 2 February 2010

A man from Crouch Hill (north London), one of three charged with a string of robbery-related offences has also been charged with possession of a stun gun.

Express & Star, 2 February 2010

A loaded handgun, cash and drugs were among items recovered in a number of co-ordinated searches of homes and shops in the Black Country.  At least three arrests have been made.

Chester First, 2 February 2010

Christopher Jackson has pleaded guilty to owning a stun gun which was found during a police raid at his home in Heswall, Merseyside.  He was given an 18 month suspended sentence and must complete 150 hours community service.  The weapon will be forfeited.

BBC, 2 February 2010

Georghita Iordache has been jailed for nine years after admitting robbery.  He and two other men threatened a farmer in Overseal, Derbyshire, with a knife and his own shotgun during the attack in February 2009.  The men stole £10,000.  The victim suffered a number of injuries and spent six days in hospital.

Watford Observer, 1 February 2010

Lloyd Franklin purchased a stun gun on the internet from America.  He claimed to have bought the weapon, which was disguised as a mobile phone, to protect himself because he feared moving to South Oxhey, Hertfordshire.  The package, which was marked 'self defense' was intercepted by customs officers.  Franklin pleaded guilty to purchasing or acquiring a prohibited weapon and sentence was committed to the crown court.

This is North Devon, 1 February 2010

Armed police were called to a street in Barnstaple, Devon, following reports that a man had been spotted with a gun and made contact with a man inside a property.  A police spokesman said there was no evidence to suggest there was a firearm in the property.

Sussex Express, 1 February 2010

A teenager walked into the shop at a garage in Newhaven, East Sussex, holding a handgun.  He demanded cash from a member of staff who put it inside a bag.  Another youth was seen waiting outside during the robbery.

South London Press, 1 February 2010

An 18-year-old is on trial facing four charges including possessing a 9mm pistol with intent to endanger life.  The loaded pistol was found in a taxi in which he was sitting and which had picked him up from a pub in Greenwich, south east London, in August 2009.  He was arrested after being shot with a police taser.  Rosca Onya had bragged on YouTube how he would shoot rivals in revenge for stabbing him.  The Glock 26 was later discovered to have been used in two previous gang-related shootings.  He was convicted of possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life and possessing ammunition with intent to endanger life (News Shopper, 2 February 2010).

Express & Star, 1 February 2010

A motorist who was climbing into his car at a restaurant in Fordhouses, Wolverhampton, has been robbed.  A number of men armed with a handgun stole his gold necklace.

Evening Standard, 1 February 2010

Police in London have warned about a new wave of chaotic young armed robbers who are targeting shops, pubs and restaurants.  The weapons they use range from imitation firearms to genuine handguns.  The robberies represent a shift from attacks on cash-in-transit vans but the are harder to predict.

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-The natural right of self-defense permits us to oppose an enemy with the same arms he uses, and to make his own rage and folly recoil upon himself-

Hock

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2010, 10:30:48 AM »

Where did that list come from?

But its is all anecdotal, a small list of small crimes in a big society, like the USA has, both proportionally small in comparison to the big picture.

Sadly in a few years, the British police, like Ireland and other countries might start increasing their firearms carry more and more. I think terrorism and foreign gangs will have a lot to do with that. Massive, varied immigration.

Hock

Mr. Barnett

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2010, 10:32:44 AM »

Navigating the "gun crimes" in the UK is very deceptive, because if you read through the statistics, they indicate that in some statistical observations, murders were not included, and  youth gun crime was not reported, and on and on and on.  Violent crime is huge everywhere, and England is not immune.  Another interesting fact, as we mentioned Canada earlier...Canada has 70 million firearms.  Alot of guns.  Anyways, looking through statistics is boring, but here's a good place to start:  http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF04.htm

It's all peaches and cream there in jolly ole England....

Mr. Barnett

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-The natural right of self-defense permits us to oppose an enemy with the same arms he uses, and to make his own rage and folly recoil upon himself-

Mr. Barnett

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2010, 10:39:21 AM »

I think you're right.  Immigration problems, economic hardships, and technology are going to overwhelm cities.  When everything is peachy, it is pleasant to think that firearms are silly, and only for americans, but as we can see from Haiti, All it takes is a small leak in the perception of stability, and all hell breaks loose.  What about then?  Just like I feel comfortable keeping  a spare tire in the back of my car, I feel comfortable having the proper tools for the job.    A gun doesn't take up that much space, and it is a useful tool to have in the toolshed.   There's nothing wrong with being prepared, and I'd hope that my neighbors are just as prepared as I am if there were some problem, either due to the weather, or the economy.  Things outside our reach and control.  It's not a big deal in my opinion to be able to own and operate a firearm.  Knowledge is power.

Mr. Barnett
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Brian S

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2010, 10:44:32 AM »

Just one month of "gun activity".  watch out for them air guns!
This is Croydon Today, 5 February 2010

Two boys aged 14 have both been sentenced to 30 months detention following a gunpoint raid on a shop in Shirley, south London, in July 2009.  One of the boys pointed an imitation shotgun at an employee before making off with £200.  Both had pleaded guilty to robbery and possession of an imitation gun.

Lancashire Telegraph, 5 February 2010

A BB gun was among a haul of weapons were found during a raid on a house in the Bank Top area of Blackburn, Lancashire.  Cannabis was also discovered.  Two men were given cautions as there was no evidence that the weapons had been used in the street.

This is Somerset, 4 February 2010

A man from Yeovil, Somerset, is on trial facing four charges of rape, one of kidnap, one of false imprisonment and two of assault by penetration.  He has admitted possession of a prohibited firearm, a sawn-off shotgun.  Another man, who denies possessing the sawn-off shotgun, is alleged to have allowed him to store the gun at the farm in West Coker where he lived.

This is Derbyshire, 4 February 2010

Two men have been charged with drugs and firearms offences following a raid at a house in Ilkeston, Derbyshire.  A shotgun and quantities of suspected cannabis and ecstasy were recovered from the house during the raid in January 2010.

Sleaford Standard, 4 February 2010

A former RAF policeman and gun enthusiast had live ammunition and three illegal pistols stored at his home in Sleaford, Lincolnshire.  Police also found over 200 imitation weapons inside the property which had been bought from a website linked to illegal weapons.  Mark Owens admitted three charges of possessing a prohibited weapon and a further charge of illegal possession of ammunition in May 2008.  His shotgun certificate had been suspended.  He was given a 12 month conditional discharge and ordered to pay costs.  The judge accepted that Owens had inadvertently broken the law and was surprised to discover the pistols were prohibited weapons.  The ammunition had been retained from his RAF days.

Royston Crow, 4 February 2010

Trains had to be halted for more than an hour after a man was spotted pointing a rifle at a train near Odsey, Hertfordshire.  Drivers raised the alert.  Police officers eventually discovered a number of armed men attending a legal shooting party hunting rabbits and other game on nearby farmland.  The party was spoken to and given advice of walking near railway lines with weapons and never to point weapons at trains.

Prestwich & Whitefield Guide, 4 February 2010

A robber pointed a handgun at a cashier at a service station in Prestwich, Manchester.  The man grabbed £150 before sprinting off.  The cashier ran after him and cornered him but the man escaped.

Liverpool Echo, 4 February 2010

A bookmaker's in the centre of Liverpool has been targeted for the second time in less than two weeks.  A man threatened staff with what appeared to be a black and silver handgun and forced them to open the safe.  He fled on foot with a substantial amount of money.

Hornsey & Crouch End Journal, 4 February 2010

Four young men went into a bank in Highgate, north London, and told staff they had a gun, but none was seen.  They fled within seconds and police refused to say whether they left empty-handed.

Hemel Today, 4 February 2010

Manuel Clark has been sentenced to nine-and-a-half years after handing over a shotgun in a pub car park in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, to an undercover police officer to whom he had also supplied drugs.  He pleaded guilty to selling or transferring a shotgun, having a firearm and ammunition in a public place and drugs offences.  George Webb who was also involved in trying to get a gun and dealt in drugs and counterfeit clothing received seven-and-a-half years after pleading guilty to aiding and abetting the transfer of a firearm and other offences, and Allan Clarke who brought the gun from his home to the car park was jailed for three years after admitting conspiracy to sell or transfer a firearm and having a firearm and ammunition in a public place.

Gainsborough Standard, 4 February 2010

A railway worker was shot with an airgun whilst working on tracks near the station in Gainsborough, Lincolnshire.  He had to undergo surgery after a pellet became lodged in his arm.

Dorset Echo, 4 February 2010

A farmer was shot at twice as he tried to stop three raiders at his property in Buckland Newton, Dorset.  Men with torches were spotted in the yard and when he confronted them they shot at him and hit a car windscreen with a .22 rifle.  It is thought that nothing was stolen.

Crain's Manchester Business, 4 February 2010

Live ammunition and an imitation firearm were among items seized during raids in Manchester and Cheshire which led to six people being arrested on suspicion of stealing more than £2m via a VAT repayment fraud.

Bolton News, 4 February 2010

A man has been charged with possession of prohibited ammunition, possession of a prohibited firearm and five other charges after a gun and ammunition were found at a house in Bolton, Greater Manchester.  The handgun and 50 rounds of live ammunition were recovered by Bolton's Organised Crime Unit.  Three other people were arrested and bailed.

Watford Observer, 3 February 2010

A man from Watford, Hertfordshire, charged with possession of a "rifle style gun" and criminal damage to a car will appear in court later this month.  He is alleged to have carried the firearm with the intention of leading a member of the public to believe "unlawful violence" would be used against him or another person.

Wandsworth Guardian, 3 February 2010

Ian Stephens from Battersea Rise, south London, who was one of four people convicted for cocaine smuggling was also found to have a stun gun.  He was jailed for 10 years.

Uxbridge Gazette, 3 February 2010

Armed police went to Permanent Joint Headquarters, which houses NATO personnel, in Northwood, west London, after reports that men with guns were lurking in the grounds.  A man and a teenage boy, who were armed with an airgun, had been hunting squirrels.  They were not arrested as they were in a public place and had not committed a crime but were warned about their actions in future.

Times, 3 February 2010

A handgun, a Baikal 9mm pistol, has been recovered at a further education college in Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey, during a police search of a student.  A silencer was found at his home.  A youth was arrested on suspicion of possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life and possession with intent to supply cannabis.

Saffron Walden Weekly News, 3 February 2010

Armed robbers, one brandishing a gun, burst into a convenience store in Elsenham, Essex.  It is not know how much money they got away with.

Haringey Independent, 3 February 2010

Michael Michaelides threatened staff at a travel agent's in Muswell Hill, north London, with a pistol in November 2009 (see Incidents).  He grabbed fistfuls of cash but was caught red-handed.  He admitted robbery and possession of a firearm and was given an indeterminate jail sentence and must serve at least five years.

Evening Gazette, 3 February 2010

Duncan Quinn showed a black pistol to men in black hoods in Lingdale, Cleveland, in June 2009.  The incident was the culmination of a feud with his partner's ex who believed Quinn had damaged his car.  Quinn was on bail at the time.  He has admitted possessing an imitation firearm with intent to cause fear of violence and dangerous driving.  His previous convictions included an affray when he had fired an air rifle, narrowly missing someone's eye.  He was jailed for eighteen months.

Evening Chronicle, 3 February 2010

Two men armed with suspected ammonia and a handgun targeted a bank in Gateshead, Tyneside.  They escaped with a large sum of cash after spraying the cashier with a noxious liquid.  Detectives say it is not know whether the handgun was real or a replica.  The raid took place last month.

Lancashire Telegraph, 2 February 2010

Police found cannabis plants and a rifle at a pub in Darwen, Lancashire.  A firearm charge against the landlady and her partner was later dropped after it was found to be a souvenir.

Herald (Plymouth), 2 February 2010

Police were called to an incident in Stonehouse, Plymouth, by a man who claimed that he had been shot.  A man had to undergo surgery for two chest wounds believed to have been caused by an air weapon.

Haringey Independent, 2 February 2010

A man from Crouch Hill (north London), one of three charged with a string of robbery-related offences has also been charged with possession of a stun gun.

Express & Star, 2 February 2010

A loaded handgun, cash and drugs were among items recovered in a number of co-ordinated searches of homes and shops in the Black Country.  At least three arrests have been made.

Chester First, 2 February 2010

Christopher Jackson has pleaded guilty to owning a stun gun which was found during a police raid at his home in Heswall, Merseyside.  He was given an 18 month suspended sentence and must complete 150 hours community service.  The weapon will be forfeited.

BBC, 2 February 2010

Georghita Iordache has been jailed for nine years after admitting robbery.  He and two other men threatened a farmer in Overseal, Derbyshire, with a knife and his own shotgun during the attack in February 2009.  The men stole £10,000.  The victim suffered a number of injuries and spent six days in hospital.

Watford Observer, 1 February 2010

Lloyd Franklin purchased a stun gun on the internet from America.  He claimed to have bought the weapon, which was disguised as a mobile phone, to protect himself because he feared moving to South Oxhey, Hertfordshire.  The package, which was marked 'self defense' was intercepted by customs officers.  Franklin pleaded guilty to purchasing or acquiring a prohibited weapon and sentence was committed to the crown court.

This is North Devon, 1 February 2010

Armed police were called to a street in Barnstaple, Devon, following reports that a man had been spotted with a gun and made contact with a man inside a property.  A police spokesman said there was no evidence to suggest there was a firearm in the property.

Sussex Express, 1 February 2010

A teenager walked into the shop at a garage in Newhaven, East Sussex, holding a handgun.  He demanded cash from a member of staff who put it inside a bag.  Another youth was seen waiting outside during the robbery.

South London Press, 1 February 2010

An 18-year-old is on trial facing four charges including possessing a 9mm pistol with intent to endanger life.  The loaded pistol was found in a taxi in which he was sitting and which had picked him up from a pub in Greenwich, south east London, in August 2009.  He was arrested after being shot with a police taser.  Rosca Onya had bragged on YouTube how he would shoot rivals in revenge for stabbing him.  The Glock 26 was later discovered to have been used in two previous gang-related shootings.  He was convicted of possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life and possessing ammunition with intent to endanger life (News Shopper, 2 February 2010).

Express & Star, 1 February 2010

A motorist who was climbing into his car at a restaurant in Fordhouses, Wolverhampton, has been robbed.  A number of men armed with a handgun stole his gold necklace.

Evening Standard, 1 February 2010

Police in London have warned about a new wave of chaotic young armed robbers who are targeting shops, pubs and restaurants.  The weapons they use range from imitation firearms to genuine handguns.  The robberies represent a shift from attacks on cash-in-transit vans but the are harder to predict.



NOT ONE DEATH!

I COULDN'T DO A BETTER JOB OF DEFENDING UK GUN CONTROL LAWS MYSELF!

HAW HAW HAW!

 ;D

(Edited for spelling, as it is hard to type when you're rolling around the floor laughing!)
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Mr. Barnett

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2010, 10:56:02 AM »

it is what it is.  guns good?  guns bad?  or is it just guns?
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-The natural right of self-defense permits us to oppose an enemy with the same arms he uses, and to make his own rage and folly recoil upon himself-

Mick Coup

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2010, 11:13:33 AM »

It's all peaches and cream there in jolly ole England....

Immune?  Who said that we don't have crime problems in the UK?  I know for a fact that it wasn't me, and I avoid using statistics due to the fact that they can be 'spun' either way, depending on what you want to prove.  Hard to spin the 'active shooter' stats however - remind me how many of those you average each year?

Smug quotes like the one above, and your diligence in trawling for such 'facts' about our shocking gun problem, show very little understanding or comprehension of the bigger picture - do I in turn have to put it in perspective by returning the favour?  Not just airguns, or replicas, or mere 'possession' incidents that boost your weak 'argument' so tenuously, but how about all the straight-up murders with handguns, not to mention the assaults that utilise real firearms in the US?  No need to flesh out those stats unfortunately.  I wouldn't know where to start in all honesty - what a task that would be!

As for me apparently thinking 'firearms are silly' and only for you Americans - not at all, yet again something I never said, thought or typed - but I don't suppose you mind letting the facts get in the way of your assumptions at all.

Once more - for the record - my issue is not with gun ownership in the US, but with US gun owners telling me that I'm some kind of crime-paralysed 'victim' over here in the UK, and that we have the real gun problem.

Obviously we haven't.

Mick

Hock

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Re: Here we go again
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2010, 11:41:05 AM »

Active shooters are averaged in. In a country of 300 million. Its still minsicule. My guess is that of the 300 million folks in the USA, 98% (or more) live their whole lives without a gun crime. I wish someone would look that up for sure, as it is only a guess. A lot of elsuive numbers to run. It could actually even be 99%. Or even more!

Gun control efforts took a HUGE nose dive after the 911 attack over here. Each tme there is an active shooter incident? More guns sell in hopes of countering the active shooters.

BUT, before Brain S rolls off to far on the floor with laughter. WHAT is the Brain S solution? Simple gun control? The aforementioned list of UK crimes is random and anecdotal. But, no one was killed? Yet shot? What does that mean in the scheme? You CAN have guns around but not kill people? Great medics were handy? What's the meaning?  And what is the solution? Remember in most big cities, where no-guns-allowed rules were implemented, they usually turn into cesspools of gun crime. Like Washington DC. But a of it is "criminals on criminals."

WHAT is the Brain S solution? Simple "no guns?" A massive door-to-door collection of all guns? Gun control? What?

Hock
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 11:56:07 AM by Hock »
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