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[whitewolf]

I have been doing some research-it appears that one can advertise something like this:
Krav Maga -unarmed self defense lessons--- 
as long as you dont say  you are part of IKMF  or IKMA or commando Krav Maga or some
thing like that you are ok because krav maga itself means contact combat and those words can be used . You also cannot use the symbol that is used by the school.

In any  event this past week end I was helping at the school and when 3 different people came in i showed them the school and what they can take-part of it was i told them i instruct in Krav Mga lessons and they were interested-so thats what i am going to continue to do-

comments please-ww (elb) "speed of light

[Hock]

I know you have been hypnotized by Krav Maga for years. I would suggest as a matter of integrity and honor, that you do not use in any way, shape or form an advertisement saying you use or teach any kind of Krav Maga unless you are somehow officially sanctioned/affliliated with someone that has some kind of legimate connection to Krav. People like to argue about what is official or not, good or not, but your foot is in the door.

Stupid or should I say ignorant citizens don’t know or don’t care about Krav Maga. Rest assured, 99.99999% of all citizens in fact have no idea what Krav Maga is anyway. But, whether its Krav Maga or not, you will in the end, probably still have the same 8 adults on average. Most of them will become friends of some sort. Water tends to seek that level on average. These core, 6, 8 or 10 or so adults will come and go.

Part of almost every person's sales pitch to a new, ignorant person is two-fold. It's about you and the system. Sales. You've got to do it anyway. Why not pitch Krav Maga? It's just another pitch. Or Shaloin Temple Monk-Fu. Its all another sales-pitch mythology. Another sales pitch. The core of thje sales pitch is always the same old "get in shape, defend yourself, best system because... blah-blah-blah."  It is the old "I'm cool and special. We are cool and special." Whether it is Krav or karate.

Good God, if you want, you can take a weekend seminar with one of a dozen of these Israeli Krav guys floating around trying to cash in on the ad money Levine has spent to popularize the name, and you can become an instructor that one weekend! You can attend a weekend seminar and you can be a Krav Maga instructor (providing they know they can't seduce you into longer, way more expensive training). I know people who have done the weekend deal. It ain't brain surgery. It can be cheap and only two days. Then, at very, very least you have that piece of a paper....from somebody. Go for it.

DON'T look for loopholes and angles.
Do it, if you are going to do it. Or don't.

Hock

[whitewolf]

Hock- thank you-Richie

[shastana]

That is great advice.  I'm in the initial phases of offering a training program as well.  I will be teaching Hock CQC program as well as offering traditional MA, as I have background in both.  So, I am steering toward the terms:  Self Defense and Self Protection for the CQC program, and Kung Fu and Tai Chi for the TMA program.  I won't be using UFC, MMA, kali, or specific terms.

I get a ? whenever I say close quarter combat.  So, Self Defense or Self Protection is good enough to reach those who just want some skill in SD.  Once in, there will be a percentage of interested students looking for more CQC, but I suspect most will want a basic SD program.  The other side, TMA, will see the kung fu program and either choose a senior program like Tai Chi, or the harder integrated wing chun/shaolin kinfa/kempo program.

Does anyone have any good advice beyond what is above?

[Hock]

Self Protection and Defense
      is better than

SELF protection and SELF Defense

CQC or Close Quarter Combat or the word combatvies doesn't always "play in Peoria."

Hock

[JimH]

In dealing with Civilians as the primary students use terms civilians know,like self defense or self protection.
CQB,CQC,Combatives are terms most associate with military/police .

Civilians know the term Martial Arts as a generic term.
They know other generic terms like Karate or Kung Fu,but few know specific arts.

When prospects come in,(which is the first,most important step) they may ask what Martial art is taught then you tell them,but most,unless they have done research,have no clue of Tai chi from wing chun or Karate from Taekwondo.

Example:
At the school I belong to we teach Hapkido.
People come in and ask what is Hapkido ?
You tell them it is the Korean Version of Jujitsu.
They ask what is jujitsu ?
Then you have to say  it is similar to Aikido like Steven Seagal does then they have a the light bulb moment of understanding.

I just ask them to watch a class and or better yet participate in the class to see if they like it,like the other students,like the instruction and see if it fits their needs and forget what it is called.

Many of the first Taekwondo  Instructors in the US,when asked what TKD was, did not want to explain that it was a Korean Art similar to Karate,so they just used the term Karate ,as that is what was known to the Masses in the US.

To me
Keep the terms generic ,and explain in more detail if asked.

Similarly to WW wanting to use the name Krav Maga.
In this day and age with people looking to control names,like KraV Maga,you might end up with a letter seeking money for use of the name.
Just call it Street Self Defense or Contact Self Defense ,and when asked what it is or what the core art is then you say the core art is Krav Maga but I am not affiliated with the krav Maga organizations and what I teach is a Krav Maga mix.
Avoid the hassle of terms and names that confuse,are not known or that people think they own and control.

Just My opinion.

[Benjamin Liu]

It would be wrong to use the term "Krav Maga" if you are not doing Krav Maga, just like it would be wrong to use the name of another system that you are not teaching.

It doesn't matter what the name of the system means when literally translated.  That is the name, and probably is descriptive of the system, but that does not mean that simply because someone makes another system that can fit the desription of the literal translation of a system's name that this new system could be called by the same name.

"Karate" originally meant "Chinese Hand" since it evolved from Chinese arts brought to Okinawa.  Later when it was brought to Japan, and Japan had problems with China at the time, the kanji was changed so that it meant "Empty Hand."  This does not mean that anything influenced by China or any empty handed system is "Karate."

Names have meaning and people looking for a system will expect to learn what they are being told they will learn.  Someone claiming to teach a system should actually be trained in and teach that system. 

A while back I was looking into RBSD systems and looked into KM.  I found a school that is nowhere near as expensive as the others and when I asked about it on this forum the head instructor seems to have a much better reputation that those of other KM schools.  You might want to look into this system if you want to get legitimate KM certification:

http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/

 

[grlaun]

Wrong? 

Whateva... Hapkido is koreanized aikijujitsu.  So what?  Same basic material, same premise...

SFC material, Krav Maga.. what's the difference?  Country of origin and SFC material blows Krav out of the water as far as material.  Use a name that attracts attention and you're fine.

I had a karate sign over my biz for 13 years & ya know what?  I taught TKD for the my money making portion... what's TKD?  Korean karate...

TKD didn't register with too many people, but karate did.  Especially with the people who spent money - the parents (read moms and some dads).  You gotta get people's attention if your gonna make money - sorry.

A name's a name - until they get through the door and sign up.  Then enlighten them.

[whitewolf]

garlun-agree 100%-krav maga simply mean contact combat-nothing more nothing less-so krav maga it is. thats my story and i am sticking with it ww.

[Wizard]

Hey, it's your show, WW.  I myself would be a bit more cautious.  When I looking for a school that taught street type stuff, I look for a Krav School.  Knew nothing of Hock back then, just wanted some practical skills.  If I had gone to your school, called KM, and trained thinking I was getting Israeli-influenced KM, I'd be pissed to find out differently, b/c it was IMPLIED you're trained in Israeli stuff.

Yes, KM is technically a phrase about contact or face to face combat.  But practically speaking, it's a style with Israeli influence.  Unless that's you, I'd think twice about the specific name.  lawsuit?  Probably not.  Misleading?  Maybe so.  Now, advertising that it's like KM, to get attention from a popular name, is no biggie if it's true.

We call our place Freestyle Krav Maga, as 2 of the 3 of us have some KM ranking/ instructorships, and all have KM training.  I've been more with Hock.  It's freestyle b/c we aborb stuff from various KM systems, amongst other stuff.  We were going to use the term Freestyle Urban Krav Maga, but said fast the acronym may have sounded bad for parents:  FUKM. 

So why not something more general like "Urban Combatives and Self Defense" or whatever your pleasure?  It speaks to the combatives types and the general public.  Just some thoughts.

[redcap]

WW, my original experience with Krav Maga was in the early 1980s in Bondi. This eastern suburb of Sydney is a very Jewish suburb and where the Hakoah CLub used to be. In the basement of this club (restaurants, halls and so on) was a gym and a KM class. In those days it was 'Karate with Kippas' as the instructor was a Shotokan black belt. I watched a class and couldn't tell the difference. Not like what one sees today.

I agree calling it 'Self Defense' is a good idea. Once in and happy you can 'enlighten them' as has been already mentioned. I was reading something on marketing and writing ad copy and the writer said you don't write something "...Shakespeare would appreciate when the average member of the public has a second grade reading level". Similarly, too much detail might confuse or scare off potential students. Also the Israeli connection doesn't have everyone salivating and keen to sign on. Are you Jewish or Israeli? I'm just fishing for some connections here. Are you teaching in the USA?  If you aren't affiliated with the community or targeting Jews, it might lose more than it gains.

Hock wrote about having to find catchy names and acronyms for things while a simple title might be a better bet, if I recall. Why not 'White Wolf Self Defense School' and when asked what system is taught, tell them it is a carefully developed blend of Krav Maga and Hock Hochheim's syllabus.

I wouldn't worry, just do it. If they ask for your credentials tell them you're as old as you are and still alive, what credentials are better than that? Throw the question back to them, then demonstrate your credentials by what you teach.
Redcap

[whitewolf]

Wizard- thaks for the input
Redcap-Yes I am Jewish- hebrew name is Ari-when i talk to KM types in europe they dont care at all if i have some type certification-we all just train and i take away good info that i pass on here at my school-i dont push the KM i just say unarmed self defense using KM and other close combat tactics .
Have been trhough classes in KM in Portugal-Greece-Poland and some in usa ==also
Europe far outweighed the US classes
their instructors all had combat experience as police/security and one was a champion in kick boxing
yes-my age also helps out when i teach (for what ever reason)
if i roll with a 35 year old and keep up or make him tap-its a selling point
another selling point is i mention i stay in touch with Hocks methods and teach combat choy ley fut tactics learned from a green baret .
i find the more honest i am it never comes back to haunt me.

i imagine one of these days a certified KM will ask me for my certification and ill say my
certification is this.. 22 years as a Marine-broken nose from full contact karate-almost broken neck from grappling-chipped elbow from throws-lots of KM tactics learned from dangerous instructors........
now----lets go  the mat....

respectfully-WW (ELB) "speed of light"

[shastana]

Self Protection and Defense
      is better than

SELF protection and SELF Defense

CQC or Close Quarter Combat or the word combatvies doesn't always "play in Peoria."

Hock

Thanks Hock, I was thinking either/or Self Protection, Self Defense...but Self Protection and Defense says it all to the interested beginner.  Street Combatives for the serious student.  Kung fu for the beginner, Chinese Kempo for the serious student.  2010 privates by spring thaw!

[Bryan]

WW, I believe when people are looking for Krav Maga they are looking for one of the systems and certificates through that system much like TKD is. Hock was just posting new information about Krav Maga Kids and all that. Even a old knife group run by some friends of mine now has become more formal and has "Kids" as a market.

Self Defense is a hard sell unless people were victims. Often enough even victims loose interest in a short period of time. Not trying to be discouraging but there is a huge downtrend in the entire "Defense" mentality and not much fresh meat to be had as customers.

One thing anyone here should be picking up from Hock is his diversity. You see him going here and teaching one thing, going there teaching another thing. He has never boxed himself in with a single brand. One thing I would suggest to you since your plenty close to him is to go down and get certification from him to teach Police Judo. Even if you only teach a class here or there to Police it will give you some inroads into the heart of your community and help establish you.

  Most of the money I have seen made lately came from seminars. Things like 2 day weekend classes and there are a few camps here and there for a week that do quite well. The daily classes and monthly payment schemes dont seem to be doing as well as they did in the 80s, people have so much choice now compared to back then.

  Where you could be very successful is having a few private students you go to and bring your training gear and give them a workout wherever they are. Your not on a full time job so you could make some adjustments and work around other peoples schedules.
 

[whitewolf]

Bryan-thanks for the input-i am working on seminars now-ill see where life takes me.
ww