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[redcap]

"Not a large city but there are some tough lads down there. I did some bouncing too so I guess that's why I'm not as impressed as I should be." - Redcap

"Good point. You know...bouncing...as in "working the door" (and I did a little too with a security company while going to college in the early 70s)...is like the bare bones entry level to the macho world."

I remember upsetting many when I commented on a forum that Geoff Thompson, the UK guru of door work and 'RBSD', had to have some serious issues to sort out given his habit of knocking out a punter a week. (Geoff Thompson, 'Watch My Back'). I think the term is 'anger management' but what would I know? I was  taught the object was to avoid violence and manage the problem without breaking the law, causing injury or upsetting the paying clientele. As in 'Dalton's', "Be nice, until it's time not to be nice" (Roadhouse)

"Since we are gossiping full out. Remember Peyton Quinn, one of the first rubber rocket-man, helmet suit guys? His tough guy creds were strictly from working the door at infamous, unnamed "biker bars." I remember one guy saying that Quinn must have worked at the bar in Star Wars - given the amount of experiences and wisdom he derived. Given his age and when he started full time teaching? He must have started working the door at age 13."

Ah yes... "The Bouncer's Guide To Bar Room Brawling". He was a good friend of that other 'outlaw', Animal something or other wasn't he? I read their books and always felt inadequate. I really needed to be heading out of 'Boom Town' keeping my profile low and ready to shiv or shank my way with my old lady out of a 6x8 cell or whatever the goal was.

"  "Certified Master Chief Instructor of Special Forces Close Quarter Combatives" Whew! Man! That's a mouthful. Sorry, I don't have the balls to say I was that. Even if I was SF? You know even the term "Master Chief" means a lot more in many real-deal, real-world circles. I truly believe that if you throw that full title around you have to at very least be the so special breed who qualified as SF in some man's army, somewhere.

Todd may be just a swell guy. A smart guy with good, passed-on material. I'd like to meet him again and have a few drinks. Whatever. No hard feelings at all. But a screw is loose somewhere to play that word game.

Hock"

Precisely. In 1985 I was actually trained by the NZ SAS man he wrote a eulogy for in his 2005 Fight Times e-zine, Ranghi Nicholls.

http://www.fighttimes.com/magazine/magazine.asp?article=352

Ranghi died in 1996 and the somewhat delayed eulogy suggests Mr Tank knew Ranghi intimately. Maybe he did but the Ranghi I knew would have told him to pull his head in as far as the military stuff went. In fact all the 'real-deal' SF people I know and have trained/with find the whole thing a giggle. I'd hate to be giggled at by those blokes. I recall Ranghi being asked if you got a certificate at the end of the course. He asked back if the bloke would be impressed enough by a certificate  to fight any harder because he knew the attacker wouldn't give a "boot full of cold piss" for it.
Rest in peace, Ranghi, Lest We Forget.
Redcap




 

[Hock]

You know I just remembered something...didn't Thompson just have two tricks for the door, for awhile? Yelling and cursing and "overloading" an aggressive bar guy, then sucker, hook punching him for a knock out?

Creating a disturbance and assault? Both firing offenses for bounces in most places?

I don't know if that was true.

Hock

[redcap]

Basically you have it in a nutshell. I was taken aback when I read his book "Watch My Back". It really was like an anger management report. He seemed to feel you needed a rep as a hard man and without it back then you would be dog food. I worked some doors in Sydney at the same time and some venues were as rough as they get (and I have been in some dives around the world as we all have).

Most nights were long and boring and the worst punters were the yuppies who would make a fuss then loudly demand "Do you know who I am?" I would always look around and ask in a loud voice, "Does anyone know this guy? He's forgotten who he is." Usually took the wind out of their sails.

If not, the next line was usually "I'll have your job, mate!" (Note the use of the vernacular to show me he might be a university graduate but he was street wise or whatever). I would tell him he was welcome to it but I wouldn't advise it unless he enjoyed dealing with drunken yuppie wankers. All the time walking them out the door and once on the street, I went back inside and left them to someone else.

They weren't angry at them, just me so me not being there  meant they had to cool off and go away. I had some patrons say 'are you scared of him?' as I came back in. I would just smile and say 'not as scared as I am of you, killer' and never had another peep from them. As for the really nasty ones, we never let them in to begin with.
Redcap

[Dawg]

Most nights were long and boring and the worst punters were the yuppies who would make a fuss then loudly demand "Do you know who I am?" I would always look around and ask in a loud voice, "Does anyone know this guy? He's forgotten who he is." Usually took the wind out of their sails.
Redcap

My reply was usually, "Well, I know you're not the fella that signs my paycheck and THAT'S all I need to know."

I like yours SO much better! I hope I'm never in that line of work ever again.

If I ever want to hang around a bunch of drunks again, I'll stand up a bunch of mirrrors around me and tip back a few. Other than that, I'll just pass on doing the whole doorman thing.

[whitewolf]

 -Red-great comebacks-closest i ever came to bouncing was shore patrol duty in the Med with the Marines/Sailors- (Before Dawgs time)
Drunks-fights-ladies of the night-stabbings-fleet landing riots-marines and sailors attacked by civilians-all in a nights work
WW (ELB) "speed of light"

[JimH]

Quote Redcap:
" I was  taught the object was to avoid violence and manage the problem without breaking the law, causing injury or upsetting the paying clientele. As in 'Dalton's', "Be nice, until it's time not to be nice" (Roadhouse)"

Exactly
The job is to get rid of problems without incident if possible.
Any problems inside get taken outside as quickly as possible and fights are a LAST Resort.

Fights bring problems to the establishment and the owner/managers.
(they do not like problems,especially ones that cost them money due to lower revenue)
They do not like fights outside as that brings Police and more problems.
(problems like DUI checks,parking violations,check for registrations,inspections,street check of IDs for those leaving the establishment ,general legal harrassment)
All Hassles that tend to drive customers away.

Bouncing should not be a job for those interested in testing or perfecting their supposed martial skills.

Redcap has  the right hop on conversational combat that lends itself to shutting down potential problems,rather than escalating  the problem which most young and or hot head bouncers/doormen see as their power trip,their switch to ACT inside their domain/world.

Redcap those were excellent responses that shut down potential problems.

[redcap]

JimH is spot on about violence being bad for business. Of course the other side of that is when a punter starts getting a bit loud and the owner comes over and demands you toss him out right that minute! I would tactfully remind him (he was paying my salary after all) he had been selling the bloke alcohol all night and that's what fifty bucks of booze buys you. If he would wait a few minutes the bloke would finish his drink, I could have a quiet word to his mates and they would get him into a cab with no fuss. Try and order him out and it was going to get messy.

Then there were the bar fights already in full fury. I saw blokes dive in, get caught up and tossed out. I used to focus on keeping the crowd out of the way of fists and boots first and once sufficient space was made the bluers were usually running out of puff by then. Time to step in and remove all concerned.

Are yes, drunks... dehydrated arseholes, just add alcohol.
Redcap

[Hock]

We were very tolerant with bouncers at the country western bars back in the 1970s and 80s in Texas and probable elsewhere. They were a rough crew and many folks were tossed out...right to the hospital.

But some level of professionalism had seeped in through time.

Having some clever lines stored in your head for situations is a great tactic. Better than a blank slate! (I use Billy jack, -not the foot beside the head thing - Kojak, Randolf Scott, Paladin. Real people I've known like Sgt Tomas Gaston...They gave me something I would otherwise never have) An attitude.

Hock

[Canuk]

Here in Ontario, bounces must be licenced, part of this licening is an enhanced back ground check for a criminal past. You can also be denighed a licence if your keeps "poppinp up" on Police systems. Once this became law the door staff droped through the floor. I used to bounce at an "indian bar" being the only white looking guy on doors led to some interesting times

[JimH]

NYC now requires you to attend a bouncer/Security guard course and get a license which must include a background check.

[hessian1]

    I did some bouncing in a bar around 1982-1983 that was transitioning from a biker hangout to an upscale place with dress code. As Hock was relating(and I think Thompson was a product of a similar era) bouncing in those days was a little less libaility/PR driven and tolerated a more hands on approach.

    On a couple nights I fealt like I had been to war ( I got challenged more often due to my being short until my rep spread for being able to handle myself), but I eventually advanced because I was developing a more level headed style. I kind of became the "Dalton" character in the area before "Roadhouse" ever hit the theatres.  Even survived my first two edged weapons assault in that place (one with stitches and one without).

Keep safe and train hard/smart,  Mark H

[redcap]

Best doorman I ever worked with was a Scouser called Kenny Salisbury. Kenny was a former Commonwealth Junior Middleweight boxing champion (I think '84).  Kenny just stood there while they went off at him, calling him every name under the sun. When they ran out of steam he'd say "Right, is that you done then, mate?". They might fire off again and he would stand there and let them get it out of their system, then ask again. As soon as they acknowledged they had said their piece, he would thank them, wish them a good night and walk back inside. They never realised the entire time he had been slowly walking them out of the entry way and onto the street. No matter what they said to try and get him to fight (not knowing who he was) it never worked. He was so cool and just took it, because he had nothing to prove to anyone. Watch this clip, even here Kenny is focussed on the sport and ignores the brawl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsZPKYte2s
Redcap

[arnold]

Bck during the 80's I worked as a manager at a very large beach Club on the Lake outside of Buffalo. On any given night there woud be between 2000-2500 idiots making their way into the club. Now most of the guys that worked the door were large, but not too bright, but would listen and only fight as a last resort. Now that evening in particular a group of rather huge steroid heads came in and proceeded to start acting like idiots. I received a call from a bartender that he was having problems with them. I came up to them and asked them rather politely to please tone it down just a tad. They told me to go fuck myself. I told them that if i could do that, I would be making movies and not having to deal with idiots like them. They again told me to fuck off. I told them that i was going to do just that and would be right back. They continued their antics as I approached them from the rear. The largest one, about 6'4 and 320 pounds had his back to me. His girlfriend, oh about 5'5 and about 200 was standing next to them. With a taser in each hand I walked up behind them and tagged both of them at the same time. They both dropped like a sack of shit. Now no one had seen what I had done. I politely told the other two that i was finished fucking myself and decided that they were the one's that needed to be fucked with. So that they could now pick up their 2 large pals and take them out. They both stood there in a state of shock as the large one started to come around. So without hesitation, I tagged him again and now he starts screaming at this pals to get him the hell out of there.
Never saw any of them again as they were going out the door, one our local cops from a softball team we supported was a the front door. As they got in their car, he followed them and tagged the driver with a DUI and possession of a controlled substance. Sometimes things just work out.

[JimH]

Redcap,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsZPKYte2s

That clip was Great.

[redcap]

Redcap,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsZPKYte2s

That clip was Great.

JimH, thanks, so was Kenny. When I worked with him he had just recovered from a car accident. He had passed 35 and in NSW at the time that meant no more pro fights. I saw him at a few matches over the years, always the gent and always happy to say hello and chat. He used to work saturdays at Randwick Races minding a bookie. If the bookie had a bad day he'd give him $500, if he had a good day it could be $5K! Nobody messed with him because they knew Kenny could sort it but I think it was more because people respected him.
Redcap