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  • February 08, 2012, 05:36:11 AM
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Author Topic: Gun-Related Death, USA  (Read 4436 times)

Hock

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Gun-Related Death, USA
« on: February 14, 2010, 06:01:33 PM »

Gun-related deaths in the USA and the Young
from the CDC...USA

Statistics and causes
The definitive source for US injury death statistics is the Centers For Disease Control National Center for Injury Prevention & Control website which provides statistics on all deaths by injury, not just gun deaths. To get the number of gun deaths for a year just set the Cause of Injury to Firearm. If you only want to know the number of child gun deaths per year then choose the custom age range and input 0 years as the lowest age and 17 years as the top age. Be sure to select "No Age-Adjusting Requested" if you are only interested in a particular age group.

Child gun death figures are typically half of the figures that the gun control lobby publishes. The difference is in the definition of a child. The gun control lobby counts young adults that are 18 or 19 years old as children, but they do not count 20 year olds as children. You can choose from one of two possible reasons, depending on your level of cynicism: 1. The standard CDC age groups used to go from 0-19, 20-39, etc and the gun control lobby couldn't figure out how to select a custom age group. 2. Counting 18 and 19 year olds as children doubles the number of so-called child gun deaths, and more child gun deaths means more support for gun control.

In 1999 there were 1776 gun deaths in the 0 through 17 age group and 3385 gun deaths in the 0 through 19 age group. By subtraction we find that there were a whopping 1609 gun deaths in just the 18 through 19 age group. Historically the 18 through 24 age group is the highest crime-committing group. At age 18 part-time drug dealers leave school and become full-time drug dealers. Despite the propaganda from the gun control lobby, criminals in general and drug dealers in particular are the group of so-called children most likely to be shot by their fellow criminals. You can verify this by reading the local gun death news stories in any city newspaper. School shootings are so rare that every one gets national television coverage, but drug dealers are shot so often that they are barely mentioned in their local newspaper.

Older people's gun deaths are most likely to be suicides. Suicides typically make up 56.5% of all gun deaths according to the Bureau Of Justice Statistics. In fact, drugs and suicides account for more than 2 out of every 3 gun deaths in the USA.

The best way to prevent gun deaths is to treat depression and other mental illness, teach children not to sell or use illegal drugs, treat drug addiction, and have police concentrate on enforcing drug laws. However, the gun control lobby says that we should spend billions of dollars on gun registration and gun licensing instead of using the money to treat depression and combat drugs.

Hock

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 06:07:33 PM »

Continued...

Suicides accounted for 55 percent of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year -- gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40 percent of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 3 percent. The remaining 2 percent included legal police killings, such as when police do the shooting(not civilian self defense).

E-Z

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 12:18:46 PM »

As I look at these U.S. statistics on the site, it seems to me that accidents are the leading cause of death until age 45, after which cancer and heart disease take over.  Homicide is the number 2 cause for the 15-24 age group, drops to number 3 in the 25-34 age group, and to number 6 in the 35-44 age group and is not even in the top 10 in age groups over that.  So what you die from, statistically, depends on how old you are. 

Yet even in the two groups in which firearms are figured, accidents and homicide, it is interesting to see that overall accidental causes of death to to firearms accidents is 0.5%, compared to automobile accidents (35.9%), poisoning (23.5%) and falling (17.1%).  In homicides, which varies from 2nd causes in the 15-24 age bracket to 6 in the 35-44 age bracket, firearms makes up 84.4% of the cause in the 1-24 age group, 79.7% in the 25-34 and 65.8% of the 35-44 age group.  Edged weapons run concurrently at 8.3%, 10.1% and 14%, respectively.

What I can conclude from these statistics is that if you are between 15 and 44, accidents remain the greater cause of death and with auto accidents being the leading cause (with accidental firearms death less than 0.5% overall--that's less than 1 %).  Homicide is the next leading cause at age 15, but drops steadily through age 44 and then drops out of the top 10 altogether after that.  If you are killed between ages 15 and 44, then firearms ARE by far the greatest cause, but even this drops as you age.  Oddly, as you age, knives also seem to grow in percentage of deaths as guns drop, though they never exceed the firearms ratio.

The bottom line seems to be that you have far, far more chances of dying from diseases and accidents like car wrecks, poisoning or falls than you do from getting shot.  Yet there are no "car control" advocates or "eating control" groups with national media trying to protect us from ourselves, at least not with enforced legislation.  Cars kill many times more people in the US than guns, but if you tried to take away peoples' ability to have a car they would riot--and yet having a car is not a Constitutional right.  But having a gun is.

Heart disease kills more people than probably anything.  Where is the group that lobbies to force us to eat what they think we should eat and passes laws to limit what you can eat of your own choice?  FDA aside, it really isn't there.  What you eat isn't a Constitutional right, either. Yet nobody is trying to control that, and if they did, people would live longer.

Respiratory diseases like emphysema kills way more people than guns.  Almost all of it is self-induced by smokers; that addiction kills thousands, and hikes up the insurance rates needlessly.  There is a cry to ban smoking, but it sure doesn't have the push or emotional investment that gun control does, even though it kills far more people.  Why not?  Smoking isn't a Constitution right.  It's a drug addiction.

Yet these gun control people focus mainly on taking my guns in the name of health and safety.  What crap.

You have to ask why is this?

My answer:

This is about people who have certain feelings (emotions) about guns (almost always invalid ones) who want to enforce those same feelings upon on the rest of us who want or own guns and have a Constitutional right to do so.  It is about emotion and establishing control over others, period, not about facts or safety.  By making up numbers to indicate that guns are a problem greater than many other problems, they seek to control and impose a Utopian society upon us.  In a very Spockian way, they are saying the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  But it is a misnomer.  The gun control advocates actually believe their desire (need) gives them the power to control the many, who happen to have rights to own and possess firearms.  Most of us on this forum know that the truth is that the rights of the individual outweigh the desires of the many, at least in this country.

The trouble is the gun control people can say anything they want to say and use any statistics they make up and the media just buys it and repeats it.  There is a definite anti-gun agenda at work here and it tends to side with liberal philosophy, which tends to latch on to all things Utopian.  Few people have the time or inclination to actually look up the data on guns (or anything else), so they believe whatever any reporter says however he wants to spin it. 

Since cars, food, tobacco and gravity kill far more people than guns do, I think they'll have to take all of those things away from society first before they can look at my guns, especially if they intend to continue this facade that gun control is about health and safety.  Lets see them issue car control laws, food control laws, outlaw tobacco and outlaw gravity first.  Otherwise, their whole argument is non-sequiter.
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VicMackey

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 09:05:27 PM »

Well said guys. And Brian S, read and learn.
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"Fail to prepare, prepare to fail."
"A citizen is armed and free while a subject is disarmed and under control."
"An armed society is a polite society."
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"-Sun Tzu
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VicMackey

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 09:06:45 PM »

Just telling you the facts and helping you learn to look at the other side's point of view.
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"Fail to prepare, prepare to fail."
"A citizen is armed and free while a subject is disarmed and under control."
"An armed society is a polite society."
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"-Sun Tzu
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"-Mike Tyson

shastana

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 11:35:50 PM »

Ok, dug back thru the forum and found "Gun Control Debate".  I got 14,000 dead from homicides and accidents...Here is what I posted then.

Ok, agree, disagree, opinions, great...lets look at the facts.

Go to the FBI website or US DOJ website and look at figures.
Here are some websites to pull data from...
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#cius

Overview of homicides in US the last 20+ years
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

---------------------------------------------
Here is what you find regarding violent crime homicides in 2007.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_10.html

Homicide total =  14,831
homicide by gun subtotal = 10,086


Now look at total number of deaths in 2006
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/08newsreleases/mortality2006.htm

Total deaths 2006 = 2,425,900


Compare that with number deaths 2005 from examples below:

Heart disease (2005) =        652,091     (26%)
Diabetes (2005) =             75,119        (3%)
Car Accident deaths (2005) =  42,636    (1%)
Hypertension (2005) =         24,902       (1%)

Gun homicides (2007) =        10,086       (0.4%)

--------------------------------------------

The number of crimes interrupted or prevented by citizens using firearms
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st223?pg=6

on average per year = 2,500,000

"The most reasonable estimate of defensive gun use was made by Kleck:
approximately 2.5 million annually. ....the saving to society from the crimes
prevented is about five times greater than the cost to society of firearms violence."

---------------------------------------------

Justifiable homicide by victims, lethal force against felon in 2002-2006.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html
Ave = 240/yr


Justifiable homicide of felon by law enforcement in 2002-2006
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_13.html
Ave = 350/yr
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An armed citizenry fly their colors, an unarmed citizenry wear their colors.

Brian S

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 03:35:30 AM »

Denial.

Up becomes down.... in beocmes out..... and black becomes white.
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arnold

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 05:58:14 AM »

Spiffy becomes,.... well it just stays Spiffy
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VicMackey

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 08:08:22 PM »

 We all can reason with this bloke until we turn blue in the face. Despite the facts, he just doesn't get it for some narrow-minded reason. 14,000 deaths? Big deal! Half of them are dead criminals anyway. This is gun country and it's just the way it's going to be and I am damn proud of it!
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 08:13:29 PM by VicMackey »
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"Fail to prepare, prepare to fail."
"A citizen is armed and free while a subject is disarmed and under control."
"An armed society is a polite society."
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"-Sun Tzu
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"-Mike Tyson

Brian S

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 03:32:39 AM »

How sick is that?
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JimH

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 10:22:28 AM »

LOL
14,000 gun deaths,Big Deal ?

I have to agree with Brian S,the justification of these numbers of deaths  to ENSURE we have Guns is a bit wacky.

In 7 Years of WAR in Iraq,the US has suffered 31,648 deaths in hostilities against a majority of armed people and the use of IED's.

The American people and the Current President said this was unacceptable,yet we argue with Brian S points saying whats the Big Deal of 14,000 deaths inside the US ?

Even though gun crimes are on the rise in the UK,due to the influx of criminals and weapons  from other recent war torn countries,the odds of running into a gun crime are slim to none,as compared to the odds in NYC.

It is through the work of the NRA and gun lobby that we,in the US, still have the weapons available,not due to the second amendment or the rights of the people to bear arms to keep the government in check.

Let us see what the gun owners say when the government reduces the access to ammo,when new legislation is enacted for licensing regulations,when we must pay a tax per gun.
NYC Police now have authorized NO CAUSE Stop,Question and Search,to find guns on the streets.

The current Obama Administration is Anti Gun and lets see what we end up with in 3 more years,(let's hope no 2nd term).

I see the Gun Rights side
I also see the side presented by Brian,Mick and others.
Having lived and worked in the UK,I see Brian's point,as when you  don't have to worry about a gun situation  other crimes need to be pulled off up close and that favors the prepared over the unprepared.
I cannot see justification though of saying 14,000 dead is acceptable to keep us having guns.

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Hock

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2010, 11:23:34 AM »

14,000 DEAD...over how long a period was that?

I don't like the word "acceptable" because really, nobody accepts it. There is a war on gun crime, and a war promoting gun safety. And an interior, arms race to face arms.
So no one accepts anything about it. One might sat we "accept it" somewhat  semantically as a fact of life. Like there was a loss of life in WW II.  (remember that old term..."acceptable losses")

I like the word amazing. Which I used. 305 million people. Millions, millions and millions of big and small guns. Over vast and different geograhies. 14,000 (over how many years again?) is an amazingly, small, teeny percentage. I just find that absolutely amazing.

But what about assaults, agg assualts and gun threats? Way more. But in the big picture(so often forgotten on all issues) A teeny percentage. Still nothing in comparison to the really, big number killers? Active shooters? No.

Lets start with cigarettes, car wrecks, suicide, fat and heart attacks.

Hock
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 11:26:01 AM by Hock »
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Brian S

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2010, 11:56:16 AM »

That's another false logic.  Here's how it goes.

We're safer because of guns....

But guns kill thousands of people....

Yes, but not as many as cigarettes, car wrecks, suicide, fat and heart attacks.

What next?  Let's see.....

We are safer because of cigarettes.....

Yes, but cigarettes kill people......

Yes, but not as many as .... etc. etc.

If I walk out of the door and stab one person per year with a poisoned umbereela, killing them, the fact that it is only one person, compared to so many other causes of death, does not justify it in any way, shape or form whatsoever.
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Hock

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2010, 01:01:11 PM »

If I walk out of the door and stab one person per year with a poisoned umbereela, killing them, the fact that it is only one person, compared to so many other causes of death, does not justify it in any way, shape or form whatsoever.

justy it..."it"...what....justify what exactly?
Would you outlaw umbrellas because .00000001% of your killings are down with umbrellas? (Didn't England want to take the tip off of kitchen knives to curtail knife crime?)

But here's another fun question, since you like these fun questions, one of those clean sweep, magic wand, fun questions.

How many people are in Great Britian? Lets say a nice round, 10 million.
1 million are bad guys with guns
9 million can never, ever have guns.
Who's safer?

Hock

Brian S

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Re: Gun-Related Death, USA
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2010, 03:17:11 PM »

There are 60 million people in Great Britain.

Not sure how such a theoretical question helps to be honest.

It's like me asking "If there are 10 million people in America, and 9 million are axe murderers... whilst the other million have no arms.... who is safer?



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