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[Hock]

I will simplify.
Half the population is armed. Many are criminals.
Half is not armed.
Who is safer?

It really is a simple question.

So you are now stuck in this arms race.
How will you feel safer in this environment?

The reason I ask is you are consistantly haranging the USA and fail to remember that
  a) The guns are here already.
  b) No one is going to collect them all.

and you are trying to view this all from...the English countryside. Its just different.

How did you couch the initial idea threads and theads ago? Are you more safe than me ....concerning guns.

You in England are more safe than me in Texas from guns.
If we switch countries, I am more safe from guns in England than you would be in Texas.
Apples. Oranges.

If you were here, certainly as a cop (its mandatory), you'd like one.

Hock
(Just please tell me that if .05% of all Brits are killed by umbrellas each year? You won't outlaw bumbershoots?)

[VicMackey]

14,000? Half of those dead are criminals and incompetent idiots. Better them than me.

[Brian S]

No matter how much you try and change the questions to fit the answer you want..... I can walk the streets safely in hthe UK without a un.  I can feel safe in them too.

But you need a gun to feel safe in the USA.

Cue next tangent.....

[Mick Coup]

and you are trying to view this all from...the English countryside....

Simplify 'the English countryside' Hock?

It's a phrase you've used before - a quaint term perhaps, along the lines of 'jolly old England' and the like?

We do have the odd bulit up area over here, quiet suburbs, inner city chaos, that sort of thing - surely you would have noticed during your trips to the capital?

Maybe we all live simple lives in quiet little villages, and just don't 'get' what goes on in developed countries like the US?

Not quite mate - and as for quaint 'countryside' I'm pretty sure you guys have got that angle well and truly covered, far more than us!

Mick

[Hock]

Doesn't Brian work in the countryside?
or downtown Manchester?
Liverpool?

Differing degrees of safe?
Crime rates and safe feelings different In Glasgow than parts of London?
Manchester?

Its wonderful that people feel so safe walking the streets EVERYWHERE.

Hock

[Hock]

No matter how much you try and change the questions to fit the answer you want..... I can walk the streets safely in hthe UK without a gun.  I can feel safe in them too.But you need a gun to feel safe in the USA.
Cue next tangent.....

Aren't you repeated exactly what I just said?

But on the question is to explain American mindset.
I will simplify again.
Half the population is armed. Many are criminals.
Half is not armed.
Who is safer?

It really is a simple question.
How will you feel safer in this environment?
You know where the answer lies. You really don't need to answer that question. Any simpleton knows in that environment, you would feel safer with a gun around.

I mean...
"Its 2 am in the bar district in Glasgow. Shady young characters are about. How safe are you feeling now?" I don't know. I have been in parts of Glasgow that looked like a war zone in the am hours. Some of the toughest looking people I've ever seen, I've seen in the UK. I guess if you've never held one or had one, you don't miss it at those moments.

But, no matter what, I do want you to to feel perfectly calm and safe walking each and every street thoughout the UK. If that every changes it will be a sad day. (maybe this is the third time, I've said this?)

Hock

[Mick Coup]

As is often the case - everywhere - statistics are driven by averages rather than specifics, especially crime figures - add to this the liberal massage treatment they get to spin them in whatever direction suits the purpose of whoever quotes them, and its little surprise I tend to be cynical when statistics are mentioned.

Certain areas in the UK are more crime-ridden than others, just like every other country, and this obviously occurs on various national, regional and local scalings.

Manchester has always been known as a 'tough town' and for a little while was notorious for gun crime, restricted mostly to gang activity.  The figures would paint a bleak picture of Manchester from a regional perspective, but when local specifics are considered the gun crime was pretty much limited to a tiny area called 'Moss Side' and though there are housing estates - projects in the US - that are veritable ghetto slums, there are areas reseved exclusively for the multi-millionaire elite too, with near-zero crime rates.

I'm pretty sure Brian isn't out in the countryside much...

As for Glasgow, I've taught fairly extensively up there and many of my students are veteran bouncers, cops and prison officers.  The city certainly has a tough reputation, and has had this since way back - apparently it has been called the 'knife capital' of Europe on many occasions, with a disproportionate number of recorded woundings, plus it also has a gang culture not seen in many UK cities.

The facts are that the overwhelming majority of these knife incidents occur in one small area, the bleak Easterhouse Estate, and it is young males stabbing each other 'recreationally' there rather than a widespread blade epidemic that affects every Glaswegian.

Gangs do exist in the UK, but they are very different to the national 'franchises' you come across in the US - over here they tend to be youths from a few streets-worth of 'turf' or one apartment block complex only, hardly MS13 or the Crips, or else a local family running a small 'empire' of the usual clubs, bars and drugs trade.  The bigger 'firms' involved in importation of drugs and people hardly rival the equivalent US efforts, but they do their best!

For instance I currently live in Cardiff, the capital of Wales, which has virtually zero 'organised' crime - plenty of local 'talent' and the reputation of being the anabolic steroid centre of at least Europe, so full of absolute physical monsters, but no 'firms' running things as such, unlike the last city I lived in - not including Tikrit obviously - which was Birmingham, that was riddled with it.

There is an upswing of foreign national crime, from Eastern Europe in particular, organised and highly motivated, but surprisingly they keep their activities internal to their own kind.

Not quite so 'jolly old' or quaint, but not a crime strangled nation either!

Mick

[Brian S]

Doesn't Brian work in the countryside?
or downtown Manchester?
Liverpool?

Differing degrees of safe?
Crime rates and safe feelings different In Glasgow than parts of London?
Manchester?

Its wonderful that people feel so safe walking the streets EVERYWHERE.

Hock

I wish I did......

Not really.  I'd be bored!

[shastana]

In England you feel safe?  No violent crime huh?  The BBC shows something completely different, you must be joking right?  A perfect utopia because you no longer own guns...a spittin image of heaven.  To quote you...oh how we twist and turn...

So, then if you came to the US, you'd feel safe too?  I suspect not.  How about Iraq, Afghanistan, or even El Salvador?  Australia maybe?  Care to comment on their gun control and crime rates?  Explain the boom in crime in Australia?   

I still don't see your point, you are trying to use a blanket statement-"I don't need a gun in the UK!"  Well good for you, we're happy for you, but you are a cop, right?  And people recognize you as a cop, you're not a 110lb hot babe, nor are you a 70 year old woman living alone.  Oh the testosterone, what supermen egos soars thru the UK air...

Now, back to the US, blanket statements and gun control.  It's simple, stay in the UK in your safe little bubble.  Its safe, you said it yourself.  Stay there, never ever travel anywhere else, and you will be safe. 

BUT if you ever make your way to the US, let me know and I will make a travel itinerary and some "guests" that would love to show you around.  You will see the opposite of "safe", and not because of guns, because of poverty and disparity, drugs, racism, and greed.  Guns, knives, bats, chains, bottles, bricks, fire and gasoline, machetes, and every other damn thing you can hold in your hand, made or bought, makes it "unsafe". If you need some entertainment, we can arrange that too...

I am going to follow the annual report by the UK Office and see how these laws have made it such a "safe" place.  Sounds like conjecture but who am I, never been to the UK...

[VicMackey]

Indeed both very informative and excellent posts, Mick and Shastana. I have been to a lot of areas around the world. And, no matter where I go, I maintain the same protective mindset as I do here in the US. Be aware and strive to survive at all costs. And, this kind of thinking not only have prevented anything from happening to me, but has also saved my hide w/o resorting to force.

[Brian S]

Not sure wh stastana is replying to.

Did anyone say there was no violent crime in the UK?

Regardless of your beliefs either way on this issue, it is always a sure bet that someone is losing an argument when they argue against points you did not make....

[redcap]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/6913208/girl-shot-wii-mix-up

This is the kind of thing that gives a lot of ammo (ouch) to the gun control mob. Now to those of us who have been properly trained and have experience carrying firearms for a living, we wonder how something like this could happen. But the sad reality is that of those half of the nation with guns (not all of which are criminals and not all of which should have them) there are many 'citizens' who are poorly trained if at all and hold attitudes and mindsets implanted by Hollywood. Scary stuff.

The end result is that tragedies like this happen all too often. So he heard a prowler. Why not lock the place up and call the police, put everyone in the one room and anyone coming through the door not yelling out "Hello, Police" gets a whack from a mattock handle or put two .380s into the centre of the seen mass if the probability of him being armed is high enough? No, he has to grab his substitute penis and play cowboys and indians in the bushes, then leave a weapon loaded, cocked and with the safety catch off (if it was on I doubt a 3 year old could take it off and if she could then the safety catch isn't safe enough) where a three year old can shoot herself with it. A three year old! I have one and a 2 year old and a couple of others and the thought of taking one to the hospital thanks to my stupidity with a gun beggars belief.

I know the gun is a tool and if used properly this would never have happened. But the reality is there are plenty of dumb but law abiding people out there. They also drive, vote and breed. We have them too, we just try not to let them loose with firearms.
Redcap

[Brian S]

Ideology to die for.

[arnold]

Ten individuals from the Uk are dressed in Spiffy yellow. Three have approved whistles. 2 have blow up doll collections. 5 live in the city, 3 live in the coutry, 2 live in city shelters. 1 is gay, 2 are bi-sexual. 4 are known to have boxed wine and pictures of Montgomery Cliff in their living room. 7 have a knife block in their kitchen but can't cook.
One has thier Dad's old Enfield rifle left over from the great war.
Who is safer??

[whitewolf]

Red-it happened in Tennessee--Dam-my state- what a dumb dumb that guy is.
He probably will never get over that.
WW