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W. Hock Hochheim's

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  • February 08, 2012, 04:32:27 PM
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Author Topic: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory  (Read 2218 times)

Canuk

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2010, 02:09:45 PM »

Ya very similar, nice find tho, I had not seen that one!
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Hock

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2010, 02:18:58 PM »

GREAT article.
A real keeper.
We have been talking about this kind of thing for years, but in the relationship of a veteran outfielder in baseball, watching precisely how his pitcher pitches, how the batter precisely stands, precisely moves and swings, and getting the "jump" on the ball.
this ONLY comes from hundreds and thousands of hours of playing. Visceral. Not watching the game on TV. Being there - as they say. Fighers, fighting over time get this.


Hock
(but what would Mr Hicks et al since, think about that in 1950?)

Canuk

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 02:29:54 PM »

Hock
(but what would Mr Hicks et al since, think about that in 1950?) 
 
 
Ahem, well clearly these people are genetic freaks of nature and no mere mortal can expect to keep up to that!

Hock,

Didn't anyone ever tell you it's rude to point out the problems with Blauer "science"
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Hock

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 02:40:52 PM »

I know...what does Tony say when you ask something too deeply or disagree...

"Thats not the Blaur spirit."

Hock

Canuk

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2010, 02:45:19 PM »

Oh and for the record he's from Montreal, not Canada
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Benjamin Liu

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2010, 02:46:20 PM »

IIRC it comes from that mental rehersal experiment where students were divided into 3 groups, one shot baskets, one visualized shooting baskets, and the other did nothing.

Benjamin, before this gets buried too far...what is this deal now? IIRC?

Hock

The experiment or what "IIRC" means?

IIRC = if I remember correctly.


As for the experiment I've read about it in pyschology books, basically they took 3 groups of stuents, over a certain time period, one group practiced shooting baskets, one group visualized shooting baskets, and the other did nothing.  Before and after the experiment they tested the student's basket shooting ability.  The group that actually practiced showed the most improvement, the group that visualized improved almost as much as the group that practiced, but not as much, and the group that did nothing showed no improvement.  I read about this in the early 1990s, so the books were probably written in the 1980s.
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Benjamin Liu

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2010, 02:49:08 PM »

Another point about visualization for mental rehersal is that it is usually done fully associated, meaning that you are imagining it as if you are doing it, not watching the skill.  It would be like virtual reality as opposed to watching something on TV.  It is also important to feel as if you are doing it rather than just seeing it.
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Canuk

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2010, 04:00:22 PM »

Another point about visualization for mental rehersal is that it is usually done fully associated, meaning that you are imagining it as if you are doing it, not watching the skill.  It would be like virtual reality as opposed to watching something on TV.  It is also important to feel as if you are doing it rather than just seeing it.

Yep gotta involve all the senses
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JimH

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2010, 05:03:00 PM »

According to Tony Robbin's,and others in NLP and Modeling for success.
We find an expert in the field we are interested in.
We try to absorb and Model/Copy as many aspects of that person as possible which pertain to our interests.
In the physical:
We Watch the Expert,or person we seek to copy.
We observe and note all aspects of movement.
We then Transfer those same movements to our training
We employ the movement slowly,visualize,correct,visualize correct as we attempt to over lap our functionality over the experts.
We then have a base for ourselves of what perfection is and we work on making the perfection a reality.

So we must start with an idea of IDEAL movement.(in relation to the physical)
We must absorb the Ideal and make it part of us
when intigrated to the point we understand the IDEAL Movement
We then concentrate on perfecting ourselves
Visualize US doing it correctly,perfectly,Ideally
We then strive to replicate it in the Real Physical world

Best applied to something we have a basic understanding of than something we are unfamiliar with.
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Canuk

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2010, 05:26:01 PM »

In other words monkey see monkey do, the trick is to find the right monkey!
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JimH

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2010, 09:38:45 AM »

Quote Canuk
"In other words monkey see monkey do, the trick is to find the right monkey!"

In a Nut shell that is it
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gematriot

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2010, 10:05:55 AM »

Quote
In the big picture I think the overall mind knows what it is perceiving as real and what is not, therefore there is a difference in a biological responses.

Yes it does...
2 examples of related studies

Brain activity evoked by inverted and imagined biological motion

Abstract

Previous imaging research has identified an area on the human posterior superior temporal sulcus (STS) activated upon viewing biological motion. The current experiments explore the relationship between neural activity within this region and perceptual experience. Biological motion perception is orientation dependent: inverting point-light animations make them more difficult to see. We measured activity levels within this region as observers viewed inverted point-light animations. We also measured neural activity while observers imagined biological motion and compared it to that measured while observers viewed the animations. In both experiments we found that the BOLD response was modulated with perceptual experience. Viewing inverted biological motion activated posterior STS more than scrambled motion, but less than upright biological motion. Mental imagery of biological motion was also sufficient to activate this region in most of our observers, but the level of activity was weaker than during actual viewing of the motion animations. (EMPHASIS ADDED)

Neural Substrates of Real and Imagined Sensorimotor Coordination
O. Oullier, K.J. Jantzen, F.L. Steinberg and J.A.S. Kelso

Abstract
 
Much debate in the behavioral literature focuses on the relative contribution of motor and perceptual processes in mediating coordinative stability. To a large degree, such debate has proceeded independently of what is going on in the brain. Here, using blood oxygen level-dependent measures of neural activation, we compare physically executed and imagined rhythmic coordination in order to better assess the relative contribution of hypothesized neuromusculoskeletal mechanisms in modulating behavioral stability. The executed tasks were to coordinate index finger to thumb opposition movements of the right hand with an auditory metronome in either a synchronized (on the beat) or syncopated (off the beat) pattern. Imagination involved the same tasks, except without physical movement. Thus, the sensory stimulus and coordination constraints were the same in both physical and imagination tasks, but the motoric requirements were not. Results showed that neural differences between executed synchronization and syncopation found in premotor cortex, supplementary motor area, basal ganglia and lateral cerebellum persist even when the coordinative patterns were only imagined. Neural indices reflecting behavioral stability were not abolished by the absence of overt movement suggesting that coordination phenomena are not exclusively rooted in purely motoric constraints. On the other hand, activity in the superior temporal gyrus was modulated by both the presence of movement and the nature of the coordination, attesting to the intimacy between perceptual and motoric processes in coordination dynamics.(EMPHASIS ADDED)
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"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense. Mark it well. "

whitewolf

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2010, 11:00:20 AM »

Good morning Gem-ok-sense i am just a old  ;D retired Marine- would you please tell me this in laymans language (even though what u wrote was excellent)- if i view a tactic on a vidio can i learn it without doing it on the mat- and when i go to the mat and try it should it work ?
I did see a vidio of a strangle choke using a gee and never did it on the mat with a partner-i went to take a class in BJJ-wound up on the floor and did the choke and he tapped out- maybe i was lucky??
thanks whitewolf
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gematriot

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2010, 11:29:43 AM »

Hi White Wolf...
Gonna have to think on that for a while...
PS. My last post was mere "copy paste" :)
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"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense. Mark it well. "

whitewolf

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Re: Controlled aggression pad drills for muscle memory
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2010, 12:24:56 PM »

ok gem- waiting- thanks WW
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