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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • February 08, 2012, 04:48:43 PM
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Author Topic: Next Fun Question  (Read 4376 times)

Hock

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2010, 06:06:49 PM »

Metz, any rules on transporting it t the range?

In Canada, my friends must call the police and report it when you leave the house and your return

Hock

Canuk

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2010, 06:49:13 PM »

Metz, any rules on transporting it t the range?

In Canada, my friends must call the police and report it when you leave the house and your return

Hock

Not sure why they gave you impression, or where in Canada these people are. In Canada ALL firearms are regulated at the Federal level and that means the RCMP, although the responsibility can be downloaded to the Province as is the case here in Ontario, which means it falls under the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) in all cases firearms are dealt with by the CFO (Chief Firearms Office). The Firearms Act and the Criminal Code of Canada govern the rules and regs concerning the ownage of and transportation of any and all firearms.

Regardless of Province or Territory you must have a PAL (possession and acquisition license) to hold a firearm. In some cases sustenance hunters can be excused certain aspects of the PAL such as age.

Once you have your PAL for either or both Restricted and Non restricted you can then go and purchase your boom stick of choice.

The PAL does not allow you to transport said boom stick, it only allows you to buy it. If you want to shoot at a club you must apply for something called an ATT (authorization to transport). These come in two forms, short term or long term short is good for a single trip and long term is good for 5 years. This permit allows you to transport the gun (following all the usual safety rules) to where you need to go, you will need to supply a reason for transporting the gun however, such as going to the shooting club.

There is no such thing in Canada as CCW by the way.

If you are an armed guard (think Brinks ) you need a PAL and a CFO ATC (authorization to carry) this ATC means that you can carry a firearm for employment purposes as per the regulations pertaining to that industry.

For those of you that give a damn here is a link to the to the Queens Cowboys that will ‘splain to in more detail
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Hock

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2010, 06:55:45 PM »

My friends in Thunder Bay.

Is that a regional thing?

Hock

Canuk

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2010, 08:09:55 PM »

Hes in the same province as me, he can apply for a five year ATT no problem. In T bay he may need it for Bear or Moose lol
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Brian S

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2010, 03:27:27 AM »

Also I will start another topic Brian, on police suicides. Are there many in the UK?

Hock

Would have to google it.

I know of one guy who attempted suicide (his wife was playing around... she is also a police officer.  Mind you, she only got with him when she was married to someone else, so he knew what he was getting).  He didn't manage it.

Then theres the infamous case of a Chief Constable dying in the Mountains of Snowdon - ill dressed for the conditions, drunk and having sent lots of menacing texts to colleagues.  I think the verdict was misadventure, though it may have been suicide.

In general I don't personally know anyone in the British committed suicide to my knowledge.
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metz57

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2010, 04:33:14 AM »

Hock,

No real restrictions on transporting them to and from the range, other than common sense ones. The weapons can’t be loaded and should be out of sight of the public. Things get more complicated if you want to take them abroad for international competitions but it can be done.

Metz
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2010, 07:37:16 AM »

Hi Calvin

What are the number of gun owners in the UK who own semiautomatic rifles?  Is there anyway those statistics are public knowledge?

Joe
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metz57

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2010, 08:05:55 AM »

Joe,

I have no idea mate and wouldn’t know where to start looking. Not sure if that info is published as each firearm certificate is issued by the local force and I’m not sure if the numbers are collated at the national level. Maybe Brian would be better able to answer.

Pistol calibre carbines (leaver action) have become very popular, especially amongst ex pistol shooters as many of them had loading gear for the calibres they use.

 All the rifles on the below website are UK legal. The .22’s are semi auto, anything bigger will be straight pull which means you have to cock it each time.
 http://www.southern-gun.co.uk/?page=items&cat_id=1
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2010, 08:41:43 AM »

Wow, thanks for that information. 

Joe
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side"

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Mick Coup

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2010, 02:38:55 AM »

Joe,

If you want a legal gat in the UK, that's worth having, then I'd suggest you join a shooting club over in N. Ireland which will charge you a nominal subscription fee and allow you to purchase and store your weapon on site.

Strictly for training obviously, but cheaper and more convenient for range-time and practice than SA or E Europe.

Mick

whitewolf

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2010, 07:51:11 PM »

I feel sorry for you guys over accross the pond- here in tn- i go to a gun collector-pick out a weapon-pay for it get a bill of sale- he gets a copy- i go  home -pay $60 for
conceled permit class--go to licensing bureau put in for permit-i think for around$200--they do a background and POOF-  soon i get my CCP-go purchase a holster-strap it on and go out in the world-ann-----all the states that touch Tn honor the permit (thats what i was told-got to check into that).

WW (ELB) "speed of light"
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VicMackey

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2010, 09:02:34 PM »

Just like Whitewolf has stated, there are some states like his, mainly TN, that allow concealed carry (I live in Richmond, VA and I conceal carry too) and there are some that are just more restrictive. We may be gun country, but the gun laws vary in each state. CA, NY, NJ, Hawaii, CA, MA, Connecticut, DC, these have more restrictive gun laws, yet crime rates are so high in those states. Although the US overall still has more crime than any other industrialized nation in the world due to its high demographics, it has reduced to an all time low according to the latest figures of FBI crime statistics.
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Mick Coup

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2010, 07:46:51 AM »

WW,

Absolutely no need to 'feel sorry' for us Brits mate - no need at all.

The hardest point to get across seems to be that guns are really no big deal over here - the overwhelming majority of British folk just don't regard havng access to firearms as being important.

Obviously it's a cutural divide - and obviously many have trouble accepting this!

There's no restriction of our liberty that is any different to the numerous other laws that prohibit certain activities - of which you have plenty in the US too.  Imagine if I said "I feel so sorry for our US cousins, unable to drink in a bar until they are 21, having to drive so slowly on their roads, can't just cross the street wherever they want..." it would be idiotic - you have your laws, we have ours.  Incidentally, those particular laws are founded on good sense and are probably saving lives - we should follow suit.

The all-time crime-stat low is a good thing, but don't forget that this is pretty subjective - it applies to the US trend only, it's still very high compared to other countries.

Surely you must concede that the presence of so many unregulated firearms is a major factor?

Mick

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2010, 09:28:15 AM »

Mick,

The question isn't a matter of should a person carry.   Not in my mind anyway.   

The question become the structure of law that do not allow freedom of choice for citizens to "defend themselves" appropriate for the level of threat.

What is defend themselves? 

"Use of force is justified when a person reasonably believes that it is necessary for the defense of oneself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force. However, a person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances.

Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm is justified in self-defense only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm."

A person my go through their entire life without the need to defend themselves in any circumstance.     Congratulations!   However, for unlucky souls, someday there be the need to defend themselves against a goblin that is better prepared, stronger, faster, and evil. 

The UK home office list the terrorism level as "severe - an attack is highly likely".   So, you sit on the local public transportation/bus in London and a terrorist with an AK-47 is on your bus.  What level of force do you have available to you LEGALLY to defend yourself and others?

Oh, the Prof is nuts, that's doesn't happen in the UK:


December 2009:  Scotland Yard has warned businesses in London to expect a Mumbai-style attack on the capital.  In a briefing in the City of London 12 days ago, a senior detective from SO15, the Metropolitan police counter-terrorism command, said: “Mumbai is coming to London.”  The detective said companies should anticipate a shooting and hostage-taking raid “involving a small number of gunmen with handguns and improvised explosive devices”.

"The 7 July 2005 London bombings, also known as 7/7, were a series of coordinated suicide attacks on London's public transport system during the morning rush hour. The bombings were carried out by four British Muslim men, three of Pakistani and one of Jamaican descent, who were motivated by Britain's involvement in the Iraq War.
At 08:50, three bombs exploded within fifty seconds of each other on three London Underground trains, a fourth exploding an hour later at 09:47 on a double-decker bus in Tavistock Square. The explosions appear to have been caused by home-made organic peroxide-based devices, packed into rucksacks and detonated by the bombers themselves, all four of whom died. Fifty-two people were killed and around 700 were injured."

There are many things that the Israelis have wrong, but preparation against evil is not one of them.  The US is still too strict on its right to self defense.   We are going to get slapped by evil because of it.

Clint Smith once stated that a handgun is not meant to be comfortable, it is meant to be comforting.

Citizens cannot count on the police to be there when needed.    This is a fact.   

There is evil in the world.   This is a fact.

There are prepared citizen that can, if allowed, be prepared against evil when it happens.




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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Professor

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Re: Next Fun Question
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2010, 09:39:13 AM »

Here's a recent story:

Friday, 12th February 2010 20:46

A man accused of using an axe to kill a four-month-old baby

[snip]

Montague claims he did not know her or the boy, according to officers.

The suspect is also accused of attacking his sister-in-law, a mentally disabled woman, more than 20 times with a point of the axe before bursting out of a house into the street.

Officers said she was stabbed repeatedly in the torso, stomach and legs. She is now in a stable condition at University Medical Centre in the city.

[snip]

Neighbours saw the rampage and shouted at Montague to stop while they called the emergency services, Mr Roberts said.

[THE NEIGHBORS SHOULD HAVE SHOT HIM IN THE HEAD}

Montague left the axe in the house before police arrived, and was involved in a scuffle with officers who tried to use a Taser gun to subdue and arrest him, said police spokesman Bill Cassell.

An officer suffered minor injuries that did not require medical treatment.
[snip]

Montague is being held without bail on charges of murder, attempted murder and attempted murder of a police officer. He is set to appear in court next Tuesday.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/baby-dies-in-axe-attack-killer-blacked-out-20241

Whether is it axes, hatchets, or butter knives - Citizens must have the freedom of choice to defend themselves with the proper level of force to stop the attack.


There is a misconception of me trying to compare the US to UK.    I look at Israel for many models that the US should be using for better protection of citizens.  My criticism over US stupidity and ignorance of the problem is much more that mine of other countries.   

The attacks in Israel are coming to the US and the UK.   We must be prepared to meet the problem.   Taking the teeth from your citizens is a move in the wrong direction.





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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC
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