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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • February 09, 2012, 04:51:02 AM
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Author Topic: Knife is a dirty word here  (Read 1732 times)

whitewolf

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2010, 07:09:51 PM »

Red-couple comments partner-
first as  JimH said think "you alone" all the time when out in public- I am not talking about military or PSD guys.
second-I dont think you were thinking about being scared afterwards=probably just winding down and getting the shakes a little thinking about the situation you just finished.
Its a funny world we live in these days .Police dont get envloved. bystanders just stare
lone heros jump in the frey.

quick story about knifes-today at work i was out in the yard and a lady came with a truck-when she finished business she started to drive by me and her humungus dog in the bed started barking at me-i took out my geber small knife and waited for the dam dog (i know stupid thing to do) but if he came out of the truck we would have one dead MF dog-
i have been practising on a sort of uppercut with the blade pointing up and i would have aimed for under his throat and drive it up as far as i could-maybe i could have tickeled his brain- the woman gave me a dirty look and left-
what can i say

WW (ELB) "speed of light"
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redcap

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2010, 09:04:47 AM »

Point being, WW, you had the knife out and in your fist ready to go. I used to always carry a Kubotan when I worked the door. Always, for years. I used it twice. Both times it came to me while struggling with the yob that my efforts to placate him had failed and so it was now, Kubotan Time! Why hadn't I drawn it earlier? Idunno. Never occurred to me at the time.

I struck one hopped up brawler on the spine and followed up with an almighty whack to the thick bone above the ear and he just sort of paused and stared at me. So I put it in the pit of his throat and pinned him to the wall till help arrived. In the book it said he would drop like a sack of poo poo. Even the video swore he would collapse on me yet neither happened. Next time I'll whip out my seminar attendance certificate and use that!

I do like the mindset of thinking you are alone and not relying on others to help.
Redcap
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Professor

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2010, 03:35:57 PM »


From then on I DO NOT carry anything.
I rely on my self,my wits,my training,my life's training.

I train in unarmed against armed
I train in armed against armed,so if I take a weapon from an attacker.
(I then didn't bring it to the conflict they did)
I have trained in FMA and train with members who train in Sayoc.

I train in unarmed against a sword,stick,bottle knife,improvised weapon and that training gives me confidence to not care about the weapon.

The knife is an extension of the hand,screw the weapon,take the limb,take the attacker out.

Your training will kick in,just flip the switch to Violence of action and do what needs to be done to go home.

Jim,

I understand that YOU don't need an equalizer.    Many do.   

Would you carry if you couldn't adequately defend yourself with physical force?
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JimH

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2010, 06:28:36 PM »

quote Professor:
"Would you carry if you couldn't adequately defend yourself with physical force?"

I grew up in a nice ,but rough neighborhood in the Bronx during the time the Gangs,(Savage Skulls,Black Spades,Savage Nomads and others) were expanding their territories and my neighborhood was a passing through area for them all.
I fought then with no weapon,while many of my friends had knives and or improvised weapons,as did a large portion of the gang members.

I worked in a Bronx Housing Complex and before getting a Pistol,I made arrests ,even arrests of those with knives and guns,never had need for the pistol.
(I did carry a Knife at that time)

I did Bodyguard work and WAS armed.

I did bouncing and Was NOT Armed

As said I have carried a Pistol and or a knife and was prepared to use them.
I do not frequent Places that one would encounter a social conflict in,(such as Bars or Clubs),where a verbal confrontation could buy me time to ready and or deploy a weapon.

I do not do work as a BG any more ,so under NY state Law it is HARD to get a Concealed Carry,and as such I do not carry a pistol,though I have  some .

If I am in an altercation it will be one which I did not see and it will be,(As the one I posted about),fast,leaving me little time to get to or deploy a weapon such as a knife.

I know many Trained and Untrained people who carry Multiple knives and who have still been taken by surprise,did not get to deploy their weapon,and got their butts handed to them as they TRIED to deploy the weapon rather than FIGHT UNARMED to defend themselves first.

If one can see a problem ahead and decides to go forward,due to having a weapon,(Rather than move another way),and they have time to get their knife or Pistol ready for use then they will most likely get it deployed and useable.
Will they use it though ?
Or
Do they carry as a show of force form of deterrent ?

I was trained and very prepared to use my knife in my multiple on one ,had I got the blade out I sure a crap would have used it.
Would I have been justified ?
Most likely, as several were armed,one with a pistol he displayed in his waist band,(don't know if it was real and or workable ),and at least another who tried to stab me from behind.
(the guy who displayed the Gun seemed to be the leader and was the Biggest so as he told me what he and his friends were going to do,Kill me ,9fore sitting in THEIR section of the Bus),I ran at him as he stood at the center of the group running his mouth and I kicked him in the bladder ,then kneed him in the face and dropped him.
What about if I killed the others who were unarmed,if any were ?

That encounter showed me that in a rapid situation ,if the weapon is not IN HAND ,then having one is USELESS.
Even if I had a Pistol,in a holster on my belt under my buttoned coat,I would NOT have had time to deploy it.

To answer the question directly:
If I were untrained ,and had never had an incident which showed me I could not deploy the weapon in an Immediate fashion as to reply to a quick attack,then I WOULD carry. (as many Trained and Untrained people do)
Most of them have,Sadly,have had no need to ever go physical and most likely will never have a need to deploy and use their weapons)

People should decide how best to protect themselves
but
should they decide to carry any type of weapon they best be sure they can get to it in an IMMEDIATE need fashion ,or having it will prove to be useless,and if they get their butts kicked and are searched the attacker will then have their weapon.

Funny though
Most who carry think they have NO NEED to learn to protect themselves unarmed,as they ARE Protected by being armed.
They do not train to use their weapon and or train to fight to gain time to use it.
(this includes many Police Officers)
Most are FOOLS
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Hock

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2010, 06:44:09 PM »

“The “Brotherhood of the Knife” is well...another terrible expression or term. Weird and offensive to comon folks and even uncommon people. And if I may...so 80s (as in so 1980s.) Nothing personal against Sotis or the people who created and experiment with this material, but I think, more thinking through this name and approach thing is needed. I think some of the Sayoc Kali stuff is extreme and strange, But I know and like the Sayoc players. But people don't gasp when they hear the term "Sayoc Kali."

I would never want to be part of some kind of "Brotherhood of the Knife" or "Brotherhood of the Gun," etc...

Hock

JimH

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2010, 07:00:38 PM »

Hock,
I agree the mindset of the Sayoc Kali players/trainers is extreme,to me anyway.
A member of our school who trains in it wanted to show me his rig one day and this knife rig was like something out of a movie with about 7 knives on this thing of varied lengths,all in case the blades were lost in the conflict some how.

It works well when you are training in a short sleeved shirt with the rig on,but lets see you deploy one blade ,when an immediate attack happens and you have a coat on over your Blade rig,as you would anyway as in NY you are not walking the streets with this thing exposed to the public,and or your potential attacker.

Me,I just like to know ,and train with or in these arts to see what is out there that maybe encountered.
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Hock

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2010, 07:30:19 PM »

Just some side issues off of this, better split for there....

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,5975.msg52752.html

redcap

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2010, 06:34:55 PM »

We just had a media beat up on Amok! and then they rehashed it for Ray Floro's teaching QANTAS cabin staff how to disarm terrorists. In his immortal words, Ray lets us know that "The terrorist's role is to terrorise". Pithy.

I think it's a great gig for Ray, I told him years ago to get out of his rented garage and upscale his business. He's still using the garage but doing well, nice DVD series and so on. Much better than when he was the combatives and tactics trainer for the short lived Sydney 'Guardian Angels'. But that's another giggle for another time.

Personally though, if I were QANTAS I would be very much miffed he told the world about this. Surely now the terrorists will take this into account and neutralize the trolly dolly more violently that before, just in case she can kick their butt?

I think the Al Qaida scale terrorist is not interested in planes, too hard a target nowadays. They will either blow up the terminal or switch tactics.
Redcap

http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/nsw/-/watch/18063990
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Hock

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2010, 06:51:13 PM »

Are there Air Marshals in Oz airlines?
I guess? I really hand thought about it.

Hock

Joe Hubbard

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2010, 06:27:20 AM »

How weird is that duelling footage that the Oz media is trying to demonise?  Imagine if they taped an "In the Clutches" session.  It's all about perception and most people's perception about knives and guns for that matter, are evil.

Joe
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 06:29:42 AM by Joe Hubbard »
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redcap

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Re: Knife is a dirty word here
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2010, 05:58:45 PM »

It was a media beat up with a definite WOW! slant. Then we have our latest State Premier (like a Governor), the American Aussie Keneally letting us know she won't tolerate this etc. Most people are thick as two planks, have no idea except what they get off movies (they all think they will hear a metallic shinnnnngggg! every time someone draws a knife from a leather sheath) and think you can shoot guns out of hands etc.

You are right Joe, it is all about perception however one's perception is one's reality. Just as a protest I taught my first knife use class last night. I haven't taught techniques for using a knife for several years and it felt good! I hate myself.
Redcap

PS Yes we do have sky marshalls. You can pick them by the fact they are the only people on the plane not watching the movie, listening to the radio, reading the magazine or looking out of the window. You can cancel out 2/3 of the passengers in any 3+3 configuration because they will be in aisle seats and then they will usually be at the row nearest the cockpit or pretty close to it, that cuts out more than half the rest. Budget restraints means they will be one-up most of the time and not on all flights. They won't be fat and they won't be female unless they are working a two-up configuration. They will be between 25-45 and male. I play spot the marshall whenever I fly. I give a wink to who I think it is and if they wink back, gottcha! Either he is a marshall and thinks so am I or I'm getting lucky in my motel tonight. So to speak.
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“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour
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