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[Instructor Smith]

OK, Listen all.  It seems that at times when I teach a class, some young kid wants to try to hit me when I am asked about certain techniques.  Every time some had tried to hit me they have failed.  I called for one of these instructors whom I cannot say his name but  he did introduce me to The Armored Assailant Padded Training suit, nothing else.  During the training, one of the students  at the seminar stated that His job (which was a  Oregon correction officer) they were taught him, "if a inmate every tries to grab you, grab his collar smash him in the groins several times and them smash him to the ground"  Now, I know that is not "arrest and restraint training '. The guess instructor stated" please  don't do that because that is not what I am teaching.  Well, before I got into that suit I told the instructor that that student was going to try to REALLY hurt me.  He dismissed it.  When I approached him he did what he was told not to do. THE SUIT DID PROTECT ME but the smashing me to the ground still hurts 3 years later. When I was going to put this man straight the guess instructor stopped me stating that "that will not happen during his class". telling ME to go and cool off.  Now, I could turn this into a race issue since every man that has attempted  to hit me was white and the guest instructor allowed this to go unanswered.  PLEASE tell me what should have happened or what can STILL happen

[whitewolf]

Wow- Instructor Smith-i would say that without being there its hard for us on the forum to pass any type judgement on what occured- one has to see it to give a honest appraisal-so i will just say that you should attempt to put that incident out of yur mind and just continue on with your training and use that incident as a training vehicle-
EVERYONE  on this forum had had his ass kicked one way or another during our lifetime in the martial arts or on some type battle field-if i kept bringing tp the surface all the beatings or near death episodes i would be in a rubber room-
hang in there Mr Smith-
WHITEWOLF (ELB) "speed of light"

[whitewolf]

Oh and by the way i have a question- How old are you ? WW

[Bryan]

Instructor Smith, I don't know you so I took a look at your bio. There is some conflicting and confusing information there maybe you can fix. For one thing your listed as graduating high school in 1977 but having "Trained in Urban Warfare / Fifth Level Defender 1969" then there is the issue with Camp Casey. Your listed as "Hand to Hand Combat Training R.O.K. Special Forces, Camp Casey, South Korea 1980-81, First Degree Black Belt / Hapikido 1981" but there is no mention of you being in the Army? I'm not saying one way or the other if any of this is true or not true as I don't know you but it does not look right either way.

  Also I dont know what if any connection you have to Damian Ross be it casual or whatever but he has came on this forum in the past and misrepresented himself and his background which put him in a very bad light.

  Back to your question, I have had to deal with this with everyone from new students to highly credentialed instructors and it still pisses me off. We have a good group of Judo students and are working to cross train them for Jiu Jitsu and NoGi Grappling to compete. While we seek a fulltime instructor I do what I can to help with some basics which mostly revolves around interpretations of the rules and understanding what directly transfers without much modification. A few weeks ago we had a Judo student from a different school stop by and while I was showing him some basic Jiu Jitsu concepts he totally exploded on me. The first time I just held him in the guard and rode him like a wild bull till he smoked himself and then I very easily swept him and got mounted. I explained a few basic principles to him and believed he understood me only to have him explode again this time on my leg. If he had done this to a new student he could have easily broken a leg or seriously injured someone. After he exploded the second time I got him under control and got a little bit more technical. First I had him take off his glasses and get me in the guard, then I without damaging him passed his guard, slammed him into a side mount at full speed and got on his neck and basically scared the hell out of him and explained he needed to calm the fuck down in class as he was being handled with kid gloves and he needed to concentrate on techniques, not continue blowing up on people and risking serious injuries.

  Then there was the case last week of having a guy I really like who has some genuine skills but tends to get confused about what works in the gym versus life and death in the streets. In his case he spent an hour instructing non knife people knife disarms so after his class I spent five minutes stabbing him to death with his practice knife. In the process he stuck a finger in my eye, switched from Aikido to Judo, then still insisted Aikido would work in a real knife attack. His teaching method for Aikido is straight out of a traveling carnival tent show, teach to a compliant audience and if anyone questions anything become non compliant and revert to Judo.

 What is so odd is this guy is fantastic at Judo but lives in an Aikido mindset. When everything was said and done he explained "violence doesn't work" and that "I could have punched you in the face" but he never understood that I was staying out of his face as a safety precaution since this was only messing around which I hoped  would help him see the errors of Aikido. As he was leaving he pointed to bag full of Japanese Weapons all of which he is a master of then insinuated they would all defeat a knife, I smiled.

[Canuk]

Am I reading this right, this happened to you three years ago?

[whitewolf]

hope not -but their somethng weird popping out-? hope not- 3 years ago-too long to be brought up now-but ill stay positive -ww

[arnold]

I can't even remember how many people over the years have wanted to beat my ass. ( I usually deserved it) .Especially the one's where after you showed them something they would be all bent out of shape becaused they got dinged a little. The one's that tried to do something usually were shown something a whole lot more terrible then what wound them up in the first place. After round two they were usually quite reserved in their actions and comments.

[JimH]

When one contracts to be the Uke/Dummy and be the attacker for an instructional group of unknown participants then one should expect to be tested.
Wearing the padded suit just lent to the extent of force the participants would use when testing the techniques.
The Instructor you were working for seems like he was not your friend,just some one who hired you for the day.
Your role and the ALLOWABLE Techniques the students used should have been talked about to all.

If you agree to be a test dummy then have the possible situations ironed out BEFORE you let strangers test things on you.

3 years ago is 2006-2007
You apparently have trained for a good many years so what ever happened is due to your own mistakes,or failures to allow anything goes and NOT DEFINE your role.

[Professor]

Yes, it was fun.

[Instructor Smith]

Thank You for your reply.  If I had thought about this forum or even knew it was available, I would have posted it then.  I just would like to know how other would have handled it.  YES,IF IT WERE MY CLASS the person would have been in jail if not worst.  When even someone comes in TELLING YOU what they are going to do, they are going to do it.

Wow- Instructor Smith-i would say that without being there its hard for us on the forum to pass any type judgement on what occured- one has to see it to give a honest appraisal-so i will just say that you should attempt to put that incident out of yur mind and just continue on with your training and use that incident as a training vehicle-
EVERYONE  on this forum had had his ass kicked one way or another during our lifetime in the martial arts or on some type battle field-if i kept bringing tp the surface all the beatings or near death episodes i would be in a rubber room-
hang in there Mr Smith-
WHITEWOLF (ELB) "speed of light"

[Instructor Smith]

51

Oh and by the way i have a question- How old are you ? WW

[Instructor Smith]

I will answer the "confusing " Parts for you


For one thing your listed as graduating high school in 1977 but having "Trained in Urban Warfare / Fifth Level Defender 1969"




When Martin Luther King was assassinated, I was living on 7016 Laflin, two block from Ashland Ave, which at that time was the dividing line between black and white.  THE STREET WAS FULL OF A RIOTS but even after the riots White people would load up the Woody and come across Ashland and would find someone that was alone or that could not defend themselves  and would let the family beat that person.  The police which was very racist at the time would not do anything about it.  The Urban Defenders were created by veterans from WWII up to then current Vietnam vets.  They were trained to defended the neighborhood against white assailants.  They later became some of the most violent gangmembers that Chicago has ever known.  To get to the fifth level you must know how to use the available firearms, hand to hand Combat and make what is now know as IED's.  I started at the age of 9 since my birthday way the following December


Your listed as "Hand to Hand Combat Training R.O.K. Special Forces, Camp Casey, South Korea 1980-81, First Degree Black Belt / Hapikido 1981" but there is no mention of you being in the Army? I'm not saying one way or the other if any of this is true or not true as I don't know you but it does not look right either way.


OK, now that was a mistake and Thank You for point it out.
I joined Feb.80
Fort Gordon Georgia
O5B10 Radio/Telephone Operator
Camp Casey, Dongduchun, Korea
June1980-Oct1981
Fort Hood Texas
!981 1982


Also I dont know what if any connection you have to Damian Ross be it casual or whatever but he has came on this forum in the past and misrepresented himself and his background which put him in a very bad light.

I don't know why you would think that I am this man.  I know alot of people and I don't remember stating that I even know him.  I am quite sure that I check out with  administration in this forum but yet you question me?   Let me straighten you out about him.  YES he charges a assfull of money for HIM.  He has what is called a "TurnKey System" that means you don't have to do make up ANY ADVERTISING
He has Videos templates everything that COST MONEY to get made on your own, he has already to go.  YES, Since Carl Cestari has pass, he and his former partner kinda lost in.  Instead of holding on t Cestari they went for the "I should be the master of Combat BS".  Would I join him, he PERSONALLY KNOWS who I am and not to even attempt to make me one of his troops.
  I hope that answer all of you questions and as I have stated to other I put this out their now because it WILL happen again.

Instructor Smith, I don't know you so I took a look at your bio. There is some conflicting and confusing information there maybe you can fix. For one thing your listed as graduating high school in 1977 but having "Trained in Urban Warfare / Fifth Level Defender 1969" then there is the issue with Camp Casey. Your listed as "Hand to Hand Combat Training R.O.K. Special Forces, Camp Casey, South Korea 1980-81, First Degree Black Belt / Hapikido 1981" but there is no mention of you being in the Army? I'm not saying one way or the other if any of this is true or not true as I don't know you but it does not look right either way.

  Also I dont know what if any connection you have to Damian Ross be it casual or whatever but he has came on this forum in the past and misrepresented himself and his background which put him in a very bad light.

  Back to your question, I have had to deal with this with everyone from new students to highly credentialed instructors and it still pisses me off. We have a good group of Judo students and are working to cross train them for Jiu Jitsu and NoGi Grappling to compete. While we seek a fulltime instructor I do what I can to help with some basics which mostly revolves around interpretations of the rules and understanding what directly transfers without much modification. A few weeks ago we had a Judo student from a different school stop by and while I was showing him some basic Jiu Jitsu concepts he totally exploded on me. The first time I just held him in the guard and rode him like a wild bull till he smoked himself and then I very easily swept him and got mounted. I explained a few basic principles to him and believed he understood me only to have him explode again this time on my leg. If he had done this to a new student he could have easily broken a leg or seriously injured someone. After he exploded the second time I got him under control and got a little bit more technical. First I had him take off his glasses and get me in the guard, then I without damaging him passed his guard, slammed him into a side mount at full speed and got on his neck and basically scared the hell out of him and explained he needed to calm the fuck down in class as he was being handled with kid gloves and he needed to concentrate on techniques, not continue blowing up on people and risking serious injuries.

  Then there was the case last week of having a guy I really like who has some genuine skills but tends to get confused about what works in the gym versus life and death in the streets. In his case he spent an hour instructing non knife people knife disarms so after his class I spent five minutes stabbing him to death with his practice knife. In the process he stuck a finger in my eye, switched from Aikido to Judo, then still insisted Aikido would work in a real knife attack. His teaching method for Aikido is straight out of a traveling carnival tent show, teach to a compliant audience and if anyone questions anything become non compliant and revert to Judo.

 What is so odd is this guy is fantastic at Judo but lives in an Aikido mindset. When everything was said and done he explained "violence doesn't work" and that "I could have punched you in the face" but he never understood that I was staying out of his face as a safety precaution since this was only messing around which I hoped  would help him see the errors of Aikido. As he was leaving he pointed to bag full of Japanese Weapons all of which he is a master of then insinuated they would all defeat a knife, I smiled.

[Instructor Smith]

Am I reading this right, this happened to you three years ago?

Yes Sir it did.  I am just finding out the value of the "forum".  Please forgive me for being so late.  Another reason that I brought it up is that I have what is called "the Durom Cup" in me.  I had a THR (Total Hip Replacement) in Feb.2007.  I found after 3 years of pain, the device is defective and i am not waiting for the removal date.  the company that made the device will compensate me of "Pain and Misery"  They will also pay for any "re-training " if I have any complication after the revision

[Canuk]

Ok cool, just wanted to make sure that it wasnt a flash back

[Instructor Smith]

OK Sir, you seem like an educated man. 

When one contracts to be the Uke/Dummy and be the attacker for an instructional group of unknown participants then one should expect to be tested.
Wearing the padded suit just lent to the extent of force the participants would use when testing the techniques.
The Instructor you were working for seems like he was not your friend,just some one who hired you for the day.



First and kind of "Padded Suit" has safety issues. Just by looking at the suit, one would think that you cannot be hurt.  Every Armored suit out there take "Special Training'.  This training lets you know as the wearer,where the weak point are.  That is why it cost so much for these guys t6o come out.  It is a 'Training Section" Not a Come and hit me to see if you can hurt me party.


You apparently have trained for a good many years so what ever happened is due to your own mistakes,or failures to allow anything goes and NOT DEFINE your role.

MY MISTAKE??? by calling for this person to train me? I am being trained.  Do you get it now?  Yes, it happen 3 years ago and I wanted to know others opinions and now i know yours thank you for you reply

When one contracts to be the Uke/Dummy and be the attacker for an instructional group of unknown participants then one should expect to be tested.
Wearing the padded suit just lent to the extent of force the participants would use when testing the techniques.
The Instructor you were working for seems like he was not your friend,just some one who hired you for the day.
Your role and the ALLOWABLE Techniques the students used should have been talked about to all.

If you agree to be a test dummy then have the possible situations ironed out BEFORE you let strangers test things on you.

3 years ago is 2006-2007
You apparently have trained for a good many years so what ever happened is due to your own mistakes,or failures to allow anything goes and NOT DEFINE your role.