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[redcap]

I agree with all bar the run like hell. Real life incidents have proven running away from a knifer usually gets you stabbed in the back. I have experimented with this and have found no matter how fast each person is over the 100m dash, the initial few metres is where they can reach out and touch you. Not only that once you run you enter flight mode rather than fight mode. Something I found chasing criminals, if they were running they tended to fight only enough to keep running. If they stood their ground and fought then it was on for young and old. Not only this but you can outrun someone when you have somewhere to run to, but not when you are running away from them.

Unless there is sufficient space to begin with, the turn and run takes time and in that time your attacker can close and kill. I agree with Hock that the first few seconds are vital. Whoever is the most aggressive sombitch will usually win the day. Get in first, hard and fast and you can carry the fight. Hesitate or mess about and you lose the initiative.

Keep in mind the knife is there for three reasons: to intimidate you, to defend against you, to attack you. The first two are easier to manage than the last one and that is all because of the mindset of the knifer, not because of greater skill etc. Of course I could be wrong and there is never a one size fits all but for most I have found this works for me.
Redcap

[Kentbob]

Hit 'em in the head with something before running.  I think we've discussed this before.  Nothing is guaranteed to work as the first response.  But if you bash the individual with a chair, rock, garbage can, you can probably get away, or effect a disarm.  I'm a firm believer and practitioner in throwing something at the face.  Every time I've done it, in practice, it elicits an instinctive flinch response.  Hands come up to protect the face, whether the person is armed or not.  Perfect for a follow up move like a chair bash, front snap kick, running, drawing a pistol, so on.  Hardened individuals will see this for what it is, a distraction.  The average scumbag will react to protect his eyes. 


Having said that, there appears to be an instinctive response to size, both on the part of the attacker and defender.  The untrained and unhardened criminals can be intimidated by size and agression, the same way as untrained, law-abiding citizens.  It's human nature.  And, as whitewolf's story illustrates, buddies may not be so quick to jump in, even if the defender is outnumbered.  Just like when a citizen gets bullied and attacked and bystanders don't want to help.  Do I have experience with this?  No, only my observations of simple human nature over my few years. 


Kent

[redcap]

If you have nothing to hand or in your hands? I guess you can always spit or yell, that's worked in the past (the spit against me and the yell for me). The old point over their shoulder and ask "what's that?" just might work, too.

But then we come to the issue at hand. I can't run out of sight on a dark night. By the time I would be about to turn the first corner I would be exhausted and in no position to turn and fight, nor would I be outrunning many muggers. I'm afraid I have few choices and I guess that sometimes means I forget to consider other people might not be burdened with my failings.

So I will keep practising the stand and fight options. Of course if you can stun or stagger him long enough to make running away a viable proposition with one shot, why not give him a few more? Finish him off there and then and walk away? Like we all agree, there is more than one way to skin that cat.
Redcap

[Kentbob]

There is more than one way to screw a goat, you are correct Redcap.  And, as you point out, no one approach is right for all people.  Not what I was suggesting, only pointing out alternatives and  possibilities.


Kent

[redcap]

Ah! The penny drops!  Kentbob the Goat Screwer!  I didn't recognize you! Redcap the Roo Rooter here old cobber! 

I think that no matter what any of us might think is the 'right answer', circumstances will dictate to a large degree our actual response and if it works, then we were right. If it doesn't...

I recall I did a H2H course in the MPs and two weeks after spending hours disarming people with guns, my partner and I were called to a domestic in the married quarters. We were greeted with a .410 shotgun. That's the really, really big one when you look down it and the smallest one on the rack in the shop at any other time.

I could have disarmed him in a trice, so could my partner. We were trained for this moment, highly trained. But all we could think of was getting away from that muzzle. So he backs off to the right praying the guy will shoot me and I back off to the left muttering in my head how he really should shoot my partner until both of us are across the lawn and on the sidewalk and about twenty feet away from each other. We then walked to our patrol car and called for backup. All those hours of penis enlargement wasted. But we're both still around to laugh about it every ANZAC Day.
Redcap

[whitewolf]

Red- you just wrote one of the most honest posts about a wpn i have read-ever-
respectfully  WW

[Kentbob]

That was a great story, Redcap.  Brutally honest, for sure. 

I'm certainly not trying to talk as if I'm the master disarmer or martial artist, or measure my martial arts penis against anyone else.  Only offering suggestions that have worked in TRAINING, and ones that I fully intend to put to work if my life is on the line.

[redcap]

That was a great story, Redcap.  Brutally honest, for sure. 

I'm certainly not trying to talk as if I'm the master disarmer or martial artist, or measure my martial arts penis against anyone else.  Only offering suggestions that have worked in TRAINING, and ones that I fully intend to put to work if my life is on the line.

Never thought you were, cobber. One thing I like about this group is we keep it a lot more respectful than some other forums. I was on an Australian one and I left because I got sick of punks hiding behind their keyboards and being brave. I am just getting into a UK one where I find there is a lot of angst and in your face behaviour there, too. But then I find the Brits are like that at a certain age and demographic. All part of the rich tapestry I guess.
Redcap

[Bryan]

 Like Kentbob said, just make it a knockout punch. We had a guy here in Thailand go off the deep end at a hotel. Its where the Fairtex Muay Thai guys were staying while they trained in Pattaya. He destroyed a room and seriously injured a security guard. Then he ended up in the hall raising hell in a Mexican standoff with police for 30 minutes. He was armed with a broken bottle waving it around at the end of a dead-end hallway. After a long time one of the guys who was in training was finally fed up with the guy blabbing on and on with police. He saw his chance then struck him once with good right cross to the chin. They said it dropped him like a sack of potatoes instantly ending the drama.

 I'm not saying you can do this every time but "The Knockout" it's a very serious option for disarming weapons.

  As far as depth, everyone needs to understand the basic concepts of weapon fighting. Few people are interested in going beyond the basics, it's a very hard sell. They will sit there and watch a fancy and useless disarm drill for an hour. Then you demonstrate how the disarm drill will get them killed in real-time, they shrug it off. Premium Martial Art students want nice  polite dojo training, not Combatives training nor mean-spirited hillbilly type violence scenarios.