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  • February 08, 2012, 06:44:02 AM
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Author Topic: Ideology to Die For  (Read 964 times)

rutleddc

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Ideology to Die For
« on: March 03, 2010, 11:45:00 AM »

Interesting point of view from a teacher  :o

Ideology to Die For
by Mike Adams
Tuesday, February 23, 2010

It is a truism to say that there are many anti-gun ideologues among our educational elites. But few are as honest as Doug Van Gorder – a math teacher at Brockton High School. He admits that he would rather lose a child than exercise his right to defend himself with a gun. In the wake of a recent school shooting, he wrote this in a Letter to the Editor of the Boston Globe:

    Some propose overturning laws that made schools gun-free zones even for teachers who may be licensed to securely carry concealed firearms elsewhere. They argue that barring licensed-carry only ensures a defenseless, target-rich environment.

    But as a progressive, I would sooner lay my child to rest than succumb to the belief that the use of a gun for self-defense is somehow not in itself a gun crime.

Morally speaking, I have no problem with anti-gun ideologues who wish to place themselves in peril by waiving their rights of self-defense. You almost have to respect someone who is willing to die for his beliefs. But when he decides that others should also die for his beliefs the real trouble begins.

There are actually a lot of Doug Van Gorders in the world. In fact, there are whole organizations of them. The Brady Campaign for Gun Control is the first that comes to mind.

The Brady Campaign for Gun Control provides a scorecard on how states are doing in regard to gun control legislation. If you don’t have enough gun control laws you get a low score from the Brady bunch. For example, West Virginia receives a score of 4 out of a possible 100. Utah actually scores zero.

Right now, there is a post by a blogger named Don Surber circulating widely around the internet. Don has cleverly compared the homicide rates in some of the states getting low Brady scores with states getting high Brady scores. Consider the following comparison:

*Utah, the state with a zero rating, has only 1.5 homicides per 100,000 citizens. Less than half of those homicides are firearm related.

*California scores the highest according to the Brady report with a whopping 79. But they have 5.83 murders per 100,000, which is a rate nearly four times higher than Utah. Over 2/3 of the homicides in California are firearms related.

I can just hear liberals saying “People in Utah don’t need guns. There’s hardly any murder in their state.” Few probably make the connection between lawful gun ownership and low crime rates. Remember, these are the people who, in the 1990s, said that “despite the low crime rate, prison populations are higher than ever.” Back then they just could not connect the dots and figure out that crime was down because the criminals were locked up.

It all goes back to ideology. Liberals refuse to believe in deterrence theory because to do so admits to the fallen nature of man. To them, man is inherently good, not evil. Moreover, he is perfectible. The liberal is willing to die to preserve his vision of himself and others. And he wants you to die for his vision, too.

Don Surber’s comparison is clever but not dispositive. The data he examines is cross-sectional so its use is limited. What we really want to see is what happens after the laws the Brady Campaign opposes are actually put in effect.

Fortunately, we know the answer when it comes to concealed carry laws. Sixteen peer-reviewed studies show that allowing citizens to lawfully carry reduces violent crime rates. Ten peer-reviewed studies are inconclusive. But there are, to date, no peer-reviewed studies reaching the opposite conclusion; namely that allowing citizens to lawfully carry increases violent crime rates.

Nonetheless, the Brady bunch continues to fight for laws that will cause themselves and others to remain helpless in the face of criminal assault. They would sooner lay your child to rest than succumb to the belief that the use of a gun for self-defense is somehow not in itself a gun crime.

The anti-gun lobby must realize that law abiding citizens need guns in a society that cannot ensure that criminals will not have them. But even if guns could be kept from criminals they would find other means to kill. After all, passengers without guns have flown airplanes into buildings.

The gun control extremist has at least two things in common with the Islamic extremist. He has a willingness to die for his fundamental beliefs. And he has the sanctimony to demand that others go with him.
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"Ruttles"
David Rutledge

whitewolf

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 11:52:30 AM »

excellent thoughts Dave-WW
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Brian S

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 05:08:20 PM »

Hmmmm. I've seen posts on a well known pro gun site that write off 14,000 deaths per year as acceptable, just to preserve the right to carry a gun.

Funny that.......
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arnold

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 07:59:51 PM »

and how many die each year from eating at Mcdonalds? Somebody pass BS the super order of fries
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shastana

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 02:06:06 AM »

Make that a double order...

These people would rather let a child die, than defend them...cowards.  I don't know any pacifist that would let their child die in front of them if they could prevent it.  Liars.

How about using a non-lethal projectile round, as in rubber or even OC loads?  Then would he feel the same about it?  I can fab one for him... 

Must be a thumb sucker....or tea bagging the English crumpet.

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An armed citizenry fly their colors, an unarmed citizenry wear their colors.

Brian S

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 02:16:39 PM »

How about living in a country where children are far more likely to live?

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Professor

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 04:46:53 PM »

The UN shows that the US is safer overall than the UK:

Death Rates

UN figures:

2005-2010 List by the UN
(deaths/1000 persons)

UK:  9.9
US:  8.2

2009 CIA World Factbook:

UK: 10.02
US: 8.38

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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

shastana

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 05:33:40 PM »

The UN shows that the US is safer overall than the UK:

Death Rates

UN figures:

2005-2010 List by the UN
(deaths/1000 persons)

UK:  9.9
US:  8.2

2009 CIA World Factbook:

UK: 10.02
US: 8.38



That is what I'm talking about, we are safer as a general population, with a few really bad hot spots.  Organized crime, greed, racism, poverty...these are the enemy.
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An armed citizenry fly their colors, an unarmed citizenry wear their colors.

Brian S

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 05:47:03 PM »

How selective is that?

 ;D

It's almost in the league of Nick wanting to include the deaths of British cops in road traffic accidents whilst discussing which country has more officers killed by guns.

Desperate.
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VicMackey

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 08:33:28 PM »

Right on, Shastana and Professor!
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Professor

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2010, 07:44:12 AM »

How selective is that?

 ;D

It's almost in the league of Nick wanting to include the deaths of British cops in road traffic accidents whilst discussing which country has more officers killed by guns.

Desperate.

"How about living in a country where children are far more likely to live?"   

Almost as selective as your question/statement.    The discussion is the ideology.  More specifically the reasons that citizens CHOOSE not to protect themselves and others.   I may not agree with their CHOICE, but, I'm proud that they have a choice.

The discussion is not of child death, which your question pointed, the discussion is on the hard decisions that must be made in choosing to defend a life in jeopardy.  More importantly the grave possibility that that choose may necessarily end the life of an unlawful attacker.

My data is a simple comparison of the country by population - I'm tired of "my country is safe than your country".    Go back and read my lecture on the subject of self-defense choice.   You might learn better what the discussion is about, rather than thinking that the conversation is on guns.   

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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Professor

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2010, 07:46:37 AM »

Bri Thai,

This has been pointed out before.....

Of course we're safer in the UK.  That's what I've been telling you.  You are less safe in the USA.  That's what I've been telling you.......

Isn't it ironic how so many of you argue against me by bringing evidence for me to the table?



http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,5952.0.html

The point is choice in self-defense.
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Brian S

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2010, 04:50:57 PM »

Professor - "I think that I should be allowed to wear a Shit Reppellant suit.  It's FREEDOM to me.  Let me wear my Shit Reppellant suit or I will shoot you......."

Brian S - "I prefer not to live in shit."

Here endeth the lesson.

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shastana

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2010, 02:36:31 AM »

And now, not whether firearms are good or bad, we tune into the next topic of discussion....why the extreme viewpoints on firearms anyway?

Do these views really exist, I ask are people soo afraid of guns that they'd rather die than hold one in their hands?  I think not, the instinct to survive is harder to thwart than that.  Just hold your breath for a few minutes and see what happens for example...its not that easy to just say you would die.

And do gun lovers, who are pigeon holed into the extremist view, really believe they would rather die than give them up?  Maybe more like cache them in the dirt and claim they were stolen instead of die? Then dig them up and take back the country?

It seems the issue at hand really does lie with ideologies, which like radical religion, dictate the ideologists actions.  So, if you stand on the extreme end of either side of the argument, are you extreme simply because the majority are too scared to stand for something?

I guess maybe in this light, I'd have to admire both, like the buddists in Vietnam that protested the war by lighting themselves on fire, not even moving while completely ablaze.  You have to wonder what kind of strength it takes to be one or the other.

And...it is probably that will to stick to the ideology that makes everyone else in the middle uneasy.  Maybe that is what anti-gun people are really afraid of, the commitment to the death on an issue.  Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 02:39:22 AM by shastana »
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An armed citizenry fly their colors, an unarmed citizenry wear their colors.

Hock

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Re: Ideology to Die For
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2010, 02:14:14 PM »

So now I am curious...

Take away the guns...why are Brits dying more? Health issues? Accidents? Do any of the studies say?

Hock
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