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[redcap]

At the risk of being howled down as (god forbid) anti-Amurricun... I think a lot of the problems are brought on by the very American, capitalist based approach to everything. Everything is about money, hype, hollywood, celebrity, money, ego, money. I know money makes the world go around etc but the down side of this is the rise of the BS artists.

I would think from reading the posts here that the majority of members are NOT into this culture and that is laudable. But the reality is this; the general public is made up for the most part by lazy, ready to believe anything that excites and titillates without offering real risk or effort almost were's. We have it here, it's just done so much bigger and better in the USA.

The argument that comes back is usually "well if you want professional quality instruction in professional quality facilities, you gotta pay for it." No argument from me. But I learned my JuJitsu from a printer and we trained at the local PCYC (Police & Citizens Youth Club, a way for the cops to identify the local thugs at a young age) for a couple of bucks a class. My hand to hand combat instructor was a former NZ SAS trooper doing security and stunt work on movies. I learned my FMA in backyards and parks from a Filipino kitchen hand, my Kyokushin Karate teacher was a tow truck driver and my Taiji teacher a fireman (fire fighter to you cousins). My military instruction was minimal and rudimentary at best, they didn't teach much that wasn't related to shooting, blowing up or calling in arty or air support in those post-Vietnam days.

None worked full time at it, none had full time premises and all were excellent instructors turning out excellent students. At least those students that applied themselves. Perhaps Whitewolf's European KM instructors were trying to be polite at how pissed off they were at yet another hyped up wanna be coming out from across the Atlantic giving the genuine people a hard time? I know Moni isn't an American but the North American continent seems to attract all the wankers.

When I visited the States in 87,91 and 99 I met many very dedicated, skillful and genuine martial arts instructors. Some made their living at it and some did it after hours but all were keen to teach their art because above all else, they loved what they did. I also met instructors with 'studios' and 'mcdojo's' who were in it for the money... and it showed. I even had an article published in Australasian Fighting Arts titled "Professionalism versus Commercialism" or something like that. That was 1991. Not much has changed, has it?
Redcap

[redcap]

This is very serious stuff. Whoever is behind this site is very well informed and not someone I would want chasing my ass. These CKM and Haganah people have really told some whoppers and it is coming back to haunt them. By the way, if I ever mentioned I used to know people who had seen Commandos on TV... I misspoke. Just covering my tush, there.
Redcap

[whitewolf]

I reviewed the recent posts here on fakes-i want to insure that i never get envloved with a organization and use their name-this is why I will not--i say will not join a organization that says-"they are the Best" - or "i was a super dupper pupper scoopper
self defense expert-I do say i have studied the generic Krav Maga tactics but have added clode combat tactics learned from what i feel are excellent teachers-I tell
students that these lessons i am passing on come from people like:
Michael Depasquale sr/jr--Gary alexander-Security people-Instructors in Europe-
Police-SF guys I know-Hock and friends-Pro boxers-
anyhow -everyone should always stay aware of fakeSD instructors-
WW

[noload]

You wonder why these people are not vetted more,especially when they are talked about and proven to be BS Artists on several forums.
Pizzo was also on the board and set to speak a year or two ago.
After he was EXPOSED on this forum he was disinvited.

I think it's because people want to believe. If some guy presents himself as an elite warrior but makes himself accessable to the average DoJoe and lets Joe in on his combat secrets, then why would they want to vet him? It seems the only sin is being found a freud after the fact as it kills his usfullness to generate money.

FWIW, I somehow got a NAPMA membership and would get their magazine. It really had zip to do with martial arts or self defense but just marketing and wringing more bucks out of each person who walked through the door.

[Benjamin Liu]

At the risk of being howled down as (god forbid) anti-Amurricun... I think a lot of the problems are brought on by the very American, capitalist based approach to everything. Everything is about money, hype, hollywood, celebrity, money, ego, money. I know money makes the world go around etc but the down side of this is the rise of the BS artists.

I don't think it has a lot to do with money.  Capitalism is just a favorite first target for many people.  There are good instructors, bad instructors, frauds, and freaks who have successful businesses, and the same types are also teaching small groups of people in their garages for free.  The worst offenders I've known personally taught for little money. 

IMO a larger motivation is power, even if only over a handful of students, almost as if the kids who ruled their D&D groups with an iron fist in junior high grew up to do the same with their bad martial arts/cqc schools.

[JimH]

Wagner,Aizik,Nardia,Kanarek all have useful technique.
If it were not for the Lies,the Fraudulent pasts and EXPANDED histories they would be your average Instructor,with no name and limited following ,as they were before they jumped on the Wagner BS way to an instant marketing base.

They follow his lead when caught out.
Say Nothing about the claims.
Change the web sites and reword parts ,still keeping the claims in but making them not as important as before.

Never admit anything is wrong and carry on.

The names are out there in the various mags, and will be kept there,with the vast majority of the public ,(who do not search and or research) will continue to buy in.

Look at Wagners seminar dates.
Most are for teaching knife,counter knife,kubaton and tactical pen materials.
What made this guy suddenly a knife expert and a maker of knives ?
When he was done will all Law enforcement activities ,of any kind,in 2003 he said he had been in TWO Knife encounters:
A drunk on a couch ,asleep,with a knife .
Some one who lunged at him with a knife and the blade hit his vest.
Those two incidents make a knife fighter/Counter Knife fighter ?
(One who is a been there done that guy)

Kanarek is looking to make some sort of Reality documentary on Israeli Special Forces Versus US /World Wide Special Forces.

Aizik says he will be doing more of the segments in things like the History Channel on Israeli Special Forces.

These guys carry on where most would have faded away.

Look at the Instructors under these people who quit due to the lies these guys spewed.
They have NO RECOURSE to recoup money spent to build a way to make a living teaching basic tactics put out by Liars and Frauds.

Yet the Magazines push them and more people buy in.

What a joke.
And the Joke is not just on the US buyers but the world wide buyers.

[noload]

Wagner teaches tactical pen? I'm thinking I should raise my rates when I teach my Special Forces Tactical Saw Blade (tm) course. Though it's only about 5 minutes long.  

[TLE]

I took a 2 day seminar with Wagner years ago. He seemed like a decent guy. He  breifly mentioned up front his "qualifications", but after that it was solid training. Pretty basic stuff. All the hype and deception is about money. Why should martial arts be any different than any other business, in that regard.

[whitewolf]

TLE_that is interesting- you are the first on the forum to say you took a course from him
WW

[redcap]

Why should there be deception in any business? I can see Benjamin Lu's point about it being about power and back yard guys doing it too. The difference is they have limited lethality compared to the ones that get into Black Belt  and on TV.

As for the 'Tactical Pen', I only teach it as an improvised weapon. I have some printed with my phone number and web site address and give them away with the seminar. I bet a tactical pen is much deadlier than just stabbing someone in the eye with an ordinary biro. If only I had known! I need to get me some hype!


Redcap

[JimH]

TLE,
You took a two day course with Wagner on what ?

Until recently Wagner never ran a two day course ,he only ran 5 day Instructor courses.He runs a Basic one to  five and and advanced one to five .Total of two 5 day courses.One week each.
(now he runs a one and two day knife courses and tactical pen)


Wagner is not in it for one and two day seminars,(he only gets a handful of people),he is in it for the BIG BUCKS of a weeks training and then having instructors who teach his concepts and SELL his materials.

You said his materials were basic ?
What did he teach in the two days ?


What did he say his Qualifications were ?
Army ?
Police Dept ?
SWAT ?
Bodyguard ?
SNIPER ?
Air Marshall ?
JKD Instructor ?

Served in the Army to Boot Camp and AIT then out.
Police he was a Bike Patrol Officer and worked the Mall.
SWAT ,worked in the TOC,he was responsible for bringing up Building plans on the computer.
Bodyguard, he worked for the Sheriff,never did actual BG work.
Sniper,NEVER
Air Marshall ,he flew 3 months of UNEVENTFUL missions.
JKD Instructor ,NEVER (though he put up a week long camp he attended in Aspen with Inosanto,and an ID card of membership for a month)

I am a Certified instructor under Wagner and completed his first course that was run in NYC in 2003.
So I know what was taught,I met Wagner,Spoke to Wagner and listened to his hyped up BS and when we went to eat and i asked him about things he claimed he did and who he trained he blew me off to talk to the guys looking to him to bring them to the promised land of Instructorship with their heads up his ass,asking him to help them get into teaching the US Military,lol.
(One was a FIGHT certified Instructor under Kanarek, with one or two weeks here and there with paper certificates opening schools,LOL)

What is the deception?

The deception is ,if he ,(and other frauds),did not GREATLY INFLATE their  BS  pasts they would not have organizations,they would be lucky to have schools.

 When Wagner started his HIGH RISK articles in Balck Belt he was a MALL POLICE OFFICER,how high risk is that crap ?
He BS'd his way through those articles  ,as he still does,writing BS from other peoples stories.

Wagner teaches a 10 block set maximum.
That his ENTIRE system.
If he opened a school to teach that stuff he would have to run it in Blocks like Kanarek and FIGHT does,as he has a LIMITED number of BASIC skills for each course offered.

If you were a Martial arts teacher and you invented your own system based on watching a,(Single), DVD how long would you have students paying for that crap ?

That is why he,Wagner, ONLY runs Seminars for Instructors and now has Knife courses.

Why so many Knife Courses and so few Instructor level courses ?

Because the numbers of people who want to be instructors under him are near zero.
When the people bringing him in for knife,his instructors to hype business, realize he has no training and NO CLUE that will be short lived as well.

It is all deception:
From the BS Histories
To being the Main Boy/s in Black Belt,Budo,Blitz and other mags.
It is all about making the dollar,for the BS Artist frauds to those who make them and sell them to the public in Magazines so they can sell products supposedly amde by and or endorsed by these people.

[whitewolf]

Hey JimH- easy guy dont get a stroke over this guy- ww

[redcap]

Why should there be deception in any business? I can see Benjamin Lu's point about it being about power and back yard guys doing it too. The difference is they have limited lethality compared to the ones that get into Black Belt  and on TV.

As for the 'Tactical Pen', I only teach it as an improvised weapon. I have some printed with my phone number and web site address and give them away with the seminar. I bet a tactical pen is much deadlier than just stabbing someone in the eye with an ordinary biro. If only I had known! I need to get me some hype!


Redcap

There shouldnt be deception in anything but the truth is there is deception in pretty much everything. Work with what you have, not with what you want

Fair comment however if you never strive to change the status quo, just 'work with what you have' then you will always have what you don't want.
Redcap

[redcap]

What JimH says is very true. I used to teach WalkSafe's Basic System. Ten tools to ten target areas with some basic fear control and so forth. Didn't take long and that was the draw card. It did not lend itself to a gym set up and regular classes so I taught Corral System Arnis and also boxing classes as well as the WalkSafe material. That sold best in either a seminar format or as a one week Instructor Course.

I copped flak over the instructor course because, despite the ad clearly stating otherwise, some confused the course with getting a black belt in a martial art. It was a course teaching a set system and how to teach it to others. Just as the army taught me with some adaptation for civilians. Of the 23 instructors who took the course, 14 were TKD black belts who loved their art but wanted some self defence material up their gi sleeves. Two were retiring military on their resettlement training and looking to open their own schools who wanted to see how it was done in civvy street. One was an SAS Warrant Officer and the other an old MP Warrant Officer mate of long standing. Both knew more than what the course was teaching but that wasn't the point. All students bar two had martial arts ranks as a solid base to work from. One student took a lot of extra time to come up to snuff and while he eventually qualified there was no 'profit' in it for me other than not giving the certificate out undeserved.

Point being, JimH is right. You can't keep students coming back and refilling your rice bowl unless you have all the mysteries of the orient to pass on.
Redcap

[whitewolf]

Red-i contacted my oriental wolf clan-they agree with what is said-WW