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[redcap]

There is nothing wrong with keeping them coming back for more if there is more there to come back for. There is also, in my mind, a huge difference between a martial art and self defence. Even basic self defence courses produce some people who get it and others who are still more of a danger to themselves. Some people are more athletic or pick things up quicker. Even basic syllabuses should be trained regularly.

But a martial art is an indepth thing and should be more of a study at length.
Redcap

[TLE]

Good God, Jim H, relax! You are correct. It was part of a 5 day course. I was only interested in the first 2 days after sseing the syllabus. Wagner said ok with him, attend what I wanted. There were only 2 other guys in the class with me. They were going for the whole week. All I really remember is doing basic strikes, chokes and get aways. Also some unarmed vs weapons. I used to attend many seminars with high profile instructors mainly out of curiosity rather than chasing the Holy Grail of SD. I don't go to seminars anymore because its basically all the same stuff.   Now, I workout hard, box, grapple a bit and do solo knife and baton work. Thats suffices quite well for my purposes. (However, I do plan on attending Hocks Chicago seminar this summer.  I rsally do enjoy Hock) May I ask, why do so many people get so damn worked up over this stuff?

[JimH]

Relax ?
How does one interpret upset in questions on a forum ?
Interpretation is the mind set of the reader,not the writer.
I simply asked questions.

My point was that Wagner does not do Seminars for the point of doing Seminars,there is NO MONEY in that for him.
As I said and as TLE confirmed,Wagner does not get 20-50 people for a seminar/Instructor Course ,he gets very few.
He,Wagner needs to sell it as a weeks Certification to make enough money.
3-4 students paying at minimum 1000 dollars for the week
is a nice piece of change.
If he did a seminar and got 3-4 people he would have what maybe 600-800 or LESS for the week.
Not worth it to him.

I also asked what HE SAID,(what HE TOLD this group), his qualifications were ?

Quote TLE:
"May I ask, why do so many people get so damn worked up over this stuff?"

Let's see:
Most BELIEVE they are signing up to train with and become an Instructor under :
A US Infantry Veteran,A Sgt.
A JKD Instructor under Inosanto.
A Former Patrol Police Officer.
A Former SWAT Team Member.
A Former Police Sniper.
A Former Police Department Body Guard.
A Former Federal Air Marshall.

A Doer,not just a Theorist.

Turns out Wagner and the others are more Theorists than Doers.

If one pays 200-300 for a day,no less 1000-1500 for a weeks training with the person with the above credentials,one expects the training to be from the sources claimed.
One expects they are giving over hard earned money for TRUE Quality Training,from a person who has Truly done what they claimed to get the students in the door.

One Does Not expect to be paying good money for a person who has fabricated their past,and delivers Basic materials they threw together to creat a course.

Look now at the Instructors under Wagner,Aizik,Kanarek to name a few ,who have invested LARGE Sums of Money to get Certified,to open schools,to get insurance,to continue to get the other certifications offered to give the people who pay them good training and their monies worth.Now that it has been shown these people Lied about themelves people are not as eager to train with the down line instructors,No Less to Train with These men.

Had these Frauds NEVER mentioned their Fake Backgrounds they probably never would have influenced so many peoples lives and not cost these well intentioned people their Incomes.

Hey but if taking a class or two showed you that the materials are basic and all similar then at least you found out and it cost little as compared to those to which it COST A LOT.

If you see no problem ,then you see no problem.
I see a PROBLEM
I write so that others ,who are willing to at least search,find out the truth and do not get sucked in and RIPPED OFF.

See I paid to train with the Wagner as he Advertised Himself.
I had NO Intentions of ever teaching his materials,I was interested in the training only,I have an Art to teach,but I seek other training to supplement and help me better train my people.
I could say I got what I wanted from the training and screw everyone else,But I do not as many I trained with under Wagner,Aizik and others have INVESTED A Lot and now the TRUTH of it all has Screwed them Big Time in a BIG Financial way.

That's why I AM SO DAMN WORKED UP.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

[TLE]

Points well taken, Jim H. A lot of money is being taken under false pretenses and anyway you cut it, that's wrong and should be exposed as such. I apologize for reading things into your post that weren't there.

[Hock]

Jim Wagner. Tactical Pen.
Secrets he learned when in the CIA. Come one, come all.

One year later....
  Wait, he was never actually in the CIA. BUT, he walked by their buildings once.
  And wrote a note with the pen on the street corner ouside.
  See attached film of Wagner actually using the pen on that street corner.
  Stand by for adjusted webpage stories....

[whitewolf]

actually he was the guy with a tin cup -each pen costs .25--
WW

[arnold]

Bri Tai walked by Buckingham Palace once, does that make him the queen?! Or is it a 'Queen"?

[Brian S]

Homophobe.

Now c'mere and give me a kiss.

[arnold]

SEE! I KNEW IT!
I am not a homophobe, I'm a herophobe!

[Brian S]

Lol at arnold.

He can't spell hermaphrodite.