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[Bryan]

As said the grip is of no concern,use what fits the need and your style.
But
If you intend to kill,and plan to do it quickly and violently,then the reverse grip ,as explained in the article is up there,especially if coming in from behind the target.

The reverse grip allows the blade to be held in a stronger position to DRIVE it in to the body and to PULL it through flesh,muscle,tendon and organs.

If you take a person from behind,and use a reverse grip,the head can be pulled Back ,Blade inserted into the opposite side behind the trachea and pull it across,ripping the trachea out.

If we try to drive the blade in with a saber grip,we have to use a sawing motion to make the cut.
As seen here (graphic video)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e16c18ff17

Saber grip is good for slashing and stabbing,not as good as the reverse grip for ripping/tearing.

The reverse grip can also be used to slash on entry/penetration and then used to hook and drive into vunerable targets in which ripping across DEEP would cause maximum damage /death.

The Reverse grip is not for sport,not for play use so the realities of seeing the article ,or other pictorial articles on its use in Black Belt or Blitz will not happen.

My opinion.

Were going well beyond the scope of the article. As a rule I don't go into "How To Kill" details online. For one thing it could lead to this website being blacklisted by search engines if some group of do gooders were to ever read it and start making formal complaints.

The reality is from behind the saber grip is much prefered over the ice pick. This is not saying that the ice pick is not suitable, it's just not prefered. The story-teller was a specialist in the ice pick and does not care about other styles. Few people ever get beyond one style, what he was describing sounded much like Ray from Down Under and his style.

Physical strength and power are not the main concerns in cutting, slashing, or stabbing when you have a sharp knife in a non military tropical climate. It is my belief the original intent of the story-teller was to convey "Power" as an inner strength, not physical.

The video was interesting but irrelevant to these comparisons because the soldier was restrained. While that method was effective and violent. It was not efficient nor the kind of thing you want to be doing when you don't want to make a mess. I would say whoever was cutting there was inexperienced at this kind of thing.

[Benjamin Liu]

Dam i cant find my  vidio by pallidon press about knife culture but in it there is a segment and shows a guy (i think Philipino) using a reverse grip and shooting it out and striking balloons-he was very fast-anyone ever see that? WW

That scene is part of a video I have, "Reverse Grip Knife Fighting" by James Keating, though maybe another video also shows it.  IIRC the same video is the first part of the "Drawpoint" series.

I don't think Keating is part Filipino, in one article he complained that he doesn't get enough attention because he is not.

[Hock]

That Keating balloon film is a VERY old film. A lot of Keating material is also, perhaps even mostly, saber grip "long knife" vs "long knife dueling." Keating these days is a bit of a recluse and a woodsman, hiring out to geologists as a guide, area folks tell me.

On the throat slit film clip? If more of those clips existed? All these rubber knife people would have a much better idea of what in hell using the knife really means.

Hock

[JimH]

Saber grip from behind:
What are the targets from behind for INSTANT DEATH ?
The Kidneys ? NO Guarantee of death at all.
A throat slash/cut across side to side from front ? No Guarantee of Death .

Reverse grip/Ice pick from behind:
Blade running down the inside of the arm,slashing the side of the neck as the blade passes to front.
Then a downward thrust between the clavicle and the scapula which will sever the subclavian artery and cause INSTANT death.

Reverse grip can hide the blade .
Blade can still be used to slash.

In Kill or Get Killed by Fairbairn we find the reverse grip slash attack.
In Get Tough by Fairbairn we find the Reverse Grip downward thrust between the clavicle and scapula.

I believe that the Fairbairn Dagger's Blade was made to a specification of 6 1/4 inches as this length Blade when thrust down through or next to the neck,especially if head was pulled back ,afforded the blade to Reach to the Heart.

I think in the article when Borino says that he is able to generate POWER in the Reverse Grip by using his Back Muscles,he is speaking of PHYSICAL Power.
(Not internal)

The soldier in the video was restrained and still the blade needed to be used more as a saw.
Had a Reverse grip been used,even if the head was not held down,blade behind trachea and ripped forward ,it would have been done in one movement.

I agree that if the consequences of true knife use were seen ,those who believe their rubber knife stuff works  might think differently.

Again the realities of the Reverse Grip when used for KILLING would not be put in the Magazines.

[Professor]

....let's out a long sigh.....

It depends.    This is a beer and chip discussion, but a good one to have for this group.


but, don't get caught into grips. 

Situational awareness/need dictates WAY too many things in a mess.

[Bryan]

Saber grip from behind:
What are the targets from behind for INSTANT DEATH ?
The Kidneys ? NO Guarantee of death at all.
A throat slash/cut across side to side from front ? No Guarantee of Death .

Reverse grip/Ice pick from behind:
Blade running down the inside of the arm,slashing the side of the neck as the blade passes to front.
Then a downward thrust between the clavicle and the scapula which will sever the subclavian artery and cause INSTANT death.

Reverse grip can hide the blade .
Blade can still be used to slash.

In Kill or Get Killed by Fairbairn we find the reverse grip slash attack.
In Get Tough by Fairbairn we find the Reverse Grip downward thrust between the clavicle and scapula.

I believe that the Fairbairn Dagger's Blade was made to a specification of 6 1/4 inches as this length Blade when thrust down through or next to the neck,especially if head was pulled back ,afforded the blade to Reach to the Heart.

I think in the article when Borino says that he is able to generate POWER in the Reverse Grip by using his Back Muscles,he is speaking of PHYSICAL Power.
(Not internal)

The soldier in the video was restrained and still the blade needed to be used more as a saw.
Had a Reverse grip been used,even if the head was not held down,blade behind trachea and ripped forward ,it would have been done in one movement.

I agree that if the consequences of true knife use were seen ,those who believe their rubber knife stuff works  might think differently.

Again the realities of the Reverse Grip when used for KILLING would not be put in the Magazines.

JimH, I disagree with your "How To Kill" conclusions. I also disagree with posting detailed  "How To Kill" information on public forums where teenagers and criminals can read this stuff then go test it out. It's like having a detective release every piece of murder evidence to a reporter for the nightly news, not a good idea.

[redcap]

The subject of the article has his way of doing it and, unlike Ray and others (including me), has done it for real. Does not mean it is the best or only way but I tend to agree with him and JimH. But then as stated I've never done it to a man either and hope I never do of course.

Borino did mean physical power, not spiritual. He is a small bloke and so most people will be bigger than he is. He popped by an hour ago to see the photos of the pig. Turns out he is in the Barangay Tanod, or community police. He sees all the 'action' here at cockfights and fiestas and is very experienced with stick, knife and empty hands but he only has two or three moves. All he needs I guess because he is not teaching or studying. He also has a lovely kamagong (tropical hardwood) 'chakoh' or knuckle duster he swears by.

That video clip might be the same as one I saw a few years ago from Iraq. I was told they saw away on purpose as it adds indignity to the murder. The Koran specifies when they kill animals to do it quickly and so on, so I presume they know how to do it clean but choose to saw away.

While I appreciate Bryan's views on How To Kill details, this is a site for professionals and while search negines may find it I doubt they are tuned in to check for context and censor accordingly. BTW, has James had a decent meal yet? 
Redcap

[grlaun]

depends on how the knife is employed- I know that MILLIONS of people use a knife everyday to eat steak & veggies, to cut wire and rope...  why just the other day I used my folder to cut off the dry cleaning tags on my uniform...

[TLE]

It seems to me the best grip is the one you feel most comfortable with; the one that works best for you. I have trained with all the grips, draw strokes ,etc.. and it comes to a point where I decided on one method. In my case it is the saber grip which, to me, can naturally flow into a hammer grip. I think it is good to have these frank discussions about the killing potential of the knife. I mean, that is the reality of it.

[whitewolf]

good point tle-reality is that (including me) very few users of this forum have actually killed with a knife-we can practise all day-but when the shit hits the fan-hopefully we wll be able to come through to live another day. I have always said that the mental strength that we pull up in a emergancy is just as if not more important than the physical training needed to win.

Reality practise with head and face-hand protection is needed. Although some disagree i have watched the "dog brothers" vidios-it appears that agression-drive-technique-all play a important part.

Another important part in the equation is to Act-not React-saving split seconds gets you ahead of the opponent- Retsev- continuing motion- is needed.

Adding to this is the use of a expedient weapon-frying pan-glass coffoe maker with a handle-bar stool-small chair-picture frame-can of dog food-etc used to fend off the opponent-

And---my favorite straight from Newark NJ -a louisville slugger- --WW

[whitewolf]

I went through some of my papers and found where I saw the training with reverse grip=it is on vidio i got at the "street survival " seminar given by caliber press in atlantic city NJ back in 1994-even though its old the vidio part that shows the instructor using a reverse grip and stabbing straight ahead was very fast-hard to defend against as it comes at you extremely fast and then back.The instructors at that seminar were a Mr Robert Willis and David  Grossi-police and security from all over jersey and Pa wer in attendance.
WW

[Hock]

Grips - This is really a side issue to the orginal post which was a cool story
          from the Phillipines.

ALL knife attacks, saber or reverse are really hideous to defend against. No one grip is better than any other, just maybe better for the circumstances. (Both may use back muscles to push or pull.)

A counter-knife person must train to face:
    Saber grip
    Reverse grip
    Right or left handed
            - in a thrusting motion
            - in a hooking motion
            - committed lunges
            - pumping (which you described in the police clip)

    In the "Stop 6" situations

Hock

[whitewolf]

hock -understand-WW