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[Hock]

What you are talking about is the shock knife
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,5421.0.html

Hock

[JimH]

The problem with a shock knife is that it creates a reaction,to pull away,that would most likely Never happen in a Real Knife fight.

In a knife fight the Majority of the people NEVER Felt the stab,the slice the Cut.

Example:
When I was young ,12-13,I had an instructor who said if a knife is presented Grab the blade.
I was in an altercation not long after and the attacker pulled a knife.a switch blade, and put it to my stomach.
I grabbed the blade tightly,thumb and index toward the attacker, and the attacker just pulled the knife down and back,I saw it happen but did not pull my hand away,9not that it took that long,lol) ,I held on till the knife was retracted back and then I step off to the side away from the Blade,delivered a low line round house to his knee and a palm heel to his head and ran.
He was able to persue me ,then I found an improvised weapon and used it on him,a burned christmas tree,and downed him.
All this with a slice that almost took my thumb off.
(Lesson learned: Never grab a blade,secondly never listen to someone who has NEVER Done what they tell you to do)

When fighting for your life why train in a manner to make,teach,instill in youa reason to pull away?

Train to continue to fight ,to fight until you are down and OUT.

My opinion

[whitewolf]

Evening Jim H--agree with most of it--sense I almost had my face taken off one time when a Col swung back at me with a empty 9MM (think i told about that before)-anyway-instructors who never have met real resistance are just talking from watching TV- - maybe not all of them-grab a knife blade lose a appendige-grab the wrist and claw  blind hit kick till he is down.

Hope some day to work with you in NY-till then i am always studying your responses and seeing if they fit in. I started A stand up style of Jujitsu today-each sat for about a hour we will be working on a couple of standup tactics-then I try them out with my class putting them into my tactics i show. great cross training for me..

What is good though about the shock knife is if you grab the wrist in some sort of hold and the blade does not touch you-you can continue the tactic-i have not tried it yet so i dont really know -but hope to see how it works out-WW

[Hock]

I agree with Jim's evaluation of the shock knife completely.
It is a gimmick with little real benefit.

If you want to train against an attacker holding an electric cattle prod? It's perfect.

Hock

[gematriot]

Gracie Knife Defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNEZS_wBFt8
"Instruction" begins at 1:10 

[JimH]

Funny thing is after I had my EXPERIENCE grabbing the blade,when I went back to the school and told the Instructor what happened and told him that grabbing the blade was kind of Dangerous,he asked when you grabbed the Blade did you try to turn the blade up or down or to the sides ,to make it harder to for the attacker to pull out ?
I explained it would not have mattered what I had done ,the knife cut through my flesh
and muscle,stopping at the bone,turning the blade would have done nothing.
He insisted I had done the technique wrong,LOL.

Like the movies and those who teach you can stop a Samurai sword with a clap catch.

Some old school teachings are pure theoretical BS,and in 1969 there was a lot of BS.
in the 70's Aaron Banks or Henry Cho had a martial arts show at Madison Square Garden and had a guy catch a bullt with his teeth.
Some people believed this BS was possible.

Here is what is still being taught as far as knife defense by many:
"The free hand may be used to parry, punch, fake a blow, throw objects, distract the opponent, assist balance in rough terrain, or even to grab opponent's blade. It may also be used to trap the opponent's hand as he or she attempts to draw a weapon."

They advocate Grabbing the blade ??

There are even some who advocate grabbing the top/flat part of the blade only and turning,like a Krav Maga pistol disarm.

These people have never pressure tested this crap,nor have they or anyone else ever
done it for real.

[whitewolf]

Nope- never been attacked with a knife- so-with out that experience cannot say for sure what works what does not-but i have to research to see what all say and practise and take what is best for me-

I saw a vidio last night made by a man in Enlgand Name is Karl Tanswell-he shows
defense against repeated stabbings-

anyone seen these ?

WW

[Hock]

anyone seen these ?
NO!
It sure would be nice yo have a link to it!
(ooohhhhh Whitewolf...)


People have NASTY wounds grabbing the blade. They can also cut the tendons that work the hand. Now, have there been off cases in history when someone has grabbed a knife and somehow survived? Sure. But it ain't smart.

When folks work out with training knifes, I see a lot of "rubber" blade grabbing. Especially when ground fighting. I have to spot it, run over, stop the fight and show how easy it is to slide a real knife out of such a grip. With trainers, it works. But with real steal deal? YIKES!

One more note...I have had to put this counter-hand, grab option into the training modules, because :
  a) I think people accidentally grab the knife
  b) People do grab the knife blade

Hock

[GermMaster]

A determined thrust to the mid section.

Not seen until the last minute:
Parry the blade with a swipe while stepping in and off to the side.

Blade comes in from a right hand stab
Swipe away/parry with right arm as you step in and on angle to your left
This position puts you parallel ,or slightly behind the attacker which enable you to get away,strike and or deal with the truning to engage attacker.

If Blade is seen:
Parry with cross hand,strike weapon bearing limb with and or wrap weapon bearing limb and strike till attacker is down.

Blade comes right hand stab to mid section
left arm parries,swipes,pushes blade to outside,(My right)
I step into attacker,at angle to my left side
I use my right arm to strike attackers right forearm and or then wrap limb
I am parallel and or slightly behind attacker with available targets of neck,throat,face ,eyes ,nose
Hold arm secure and strike vital areas until opponent goes down
I also am at the side and can drive a downward kick into opponents kneee and drive it and him/her to the ground.
Never releasing the weapon bearing limb until attacker is desarmed or down and out allowing me to get away.

Here is a clip,from the static but it can be used with a thrust.
Part similar to my explanation at around 40 seconds (No limb control,just violence of action)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0SfgolItm8

Have fun

This is a good one.  The only problem is most people won't see the blade until it's too late.  Most people would see as the attacker draws back though.  That should give you more than enough time to parry the thrust.  However, that won't give you the time to decide how to parry it unless it's innate in you.  So I suggest this:

Not seen until the last minute:
Parry the blade with a swipe while stepping in and off to the side.

[JimH]

If attacker has their hand behind their back,hidden,unseen,we must assume they have a knife,
Hand behind back means that we will see if arm is coming as an uppercut,/stab or out as a hook,slash as to slash the forearm must come out and rise.
If it is a sudden uppercut move or stab,then we can use the move as I explained and as copied/reposted.

A knife will be seen if it is out front used as a point of intimidation that then becomes a working tool and is put into motion

[Crafty]

dont get killed

[Black Knife]

These are some basic ways of dealing with committed knife attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7mWBtaQ6xo

[Crafty]

Got something to do know i will counter all them 

[VicMackey]

I'd say the best thing is, if you can, is to grab anything larger than a knife to deal with it. Not only would the improvised weapon be useful to block or parry the knife but also makes a good counterstrike weapon or a distraction weapon, like say, a cup of hot coffee thrown into the attacker's face.

[Hock]

Been watching these clips and reading these remarks....

Look at a pro third baseman. As the batter swings, he is prepared to:

Catch a pop-up
Catch a line-drive
   to the right
   to the left
   to his center
Catch a ground ball
   to his right
   to his left
   to his center
(already Hick of Hick's Law is lost. If Hick was right, the third baseman couldn't even move as he would have to select from some 8 tactics in an instant)

All at the crack of a bat, he knows what's coming, but doesn't know exactly.

An knife attack comes
 1) in a committed lunge that lingers
 2) in a hit and retract, (pumping, stitching, etc)
 3) 1 and 2 in a thrust motion
 4) 1 and 2 in a hook motion

So, there is no one solution. What works for one, wont work for the other. The competent defender has to be free to "catch all the balls" that come his way. Loose, free. Capable. 

In that sorry aikido stab clip, the stab is coming in, in a committed lunge, straight-line (not the more common upper cut.) That committed, "giving" lunge gives Mr Energy the ability to do his aiki trick. (one I would not try, as there are faster, more brutal strikes that amp up the success rate.)

Be the third baseman, at the "tip of the spear" so to speak, ready to respond to the list of attacks. Lunge, stitch in a thrust or hook.

Basic Training. The attacker

Thrusting stabs on the combat clock
Hooking stabs on the combat clock
Hooking slashes on the combat clock

    - Practice dodging and evading
    - Practice using stuff around as a shied of weapon
    - Clear knife attack (block, deflect) while...
    - Hitting the eyes (or throat - hit what ya got best)
    - Wrap arm if you can
    - Kick and beat the high, holy shit out of the guy

Start by practicing that. It's just 4 groups of things! 

Hock