Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hock]

You HAVE to check out this silent WW I army training film, about hand-to-hand (or boxing, and some grappling) IT'S GREAT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga4zLsMmkE0&feature=email

Hock
(thanks to Tim Tackett that sent it to me)

[whitewolf]

That vidio is priceless-in addition check out some of the vidios that are on the side at the end-thanks Hock WW

[Hock]

Which leads me to my age-old question.

If that was WW I Combatives?
What is so special and pioneering about WW II Combatives?
I think this is a point to discuss.

Hock

[Canuk]

Very nice video, I will now sit back and wait for all the WW1 "combat masters" to emerge and debunk all the WW2 h2h "masters"

[Hock]

I wonder if anyone really knew what was being done in WW I like this.

And again, what's the big hubub of WW II Combatives if all this was being done that far back anyway? Think what this means to Happy Captain Mikey "McShizzo" Pizzo, the ultimate martial fraud of our time. Loved by millions and all.  The Army Captain who was never in the Army. Lt X unmasked.

Hock
(I'll go in half with you...we'll make "World War I Combat Masters." If you'll say it was your great grandfather that taught you these secrets and...and...I'll say...ahhh...I found the training manuals in a cave in Texas...YEAH! And we hold the WW I secrets. Now is the time to release them - but to only a selected few. Order now! ) 

[Dawg]

Very nice video, I will now sit back and wait for all the WW1 "combat masters" to emerge and debunk all the WW2 h2h "masters"

WWI:1914-1919
WWII:1941-1945

I don't think we can expect any "combat masters" debunking each other, unless someone from the Seniors Center puts it on YouTube (battling walkers...oh yeah! ).

I guess we could look forward to some heated debates over lineage and such...like we don't have enough of THAT already!

(I'll go in half with you...we'll make "World War I Combat Masters." If you'll say it was your great grandfather that taught you these secrets and...and...I'll say...ahhh...I found the training manuals in a cave in Texas...YEAH! And we hold the WW I secrets. Now is the time to release them - but to only a selected few. Order now! ) 

I want some of WHATEVER medication you're taking...that's priceless! Just add that you were led to the cave by Mars, the god of war himself. You've got to have some mysticism or fantasy action to get the big bucks.

Oh yeah, "In just 10 minutes a day, from the comfort of your couch in front of your entertainment system, you can learn how to defeat the very gods themselves! But, for a limited time only, you can also receive the never-before-released "The Body of Adonis". Learn how to maintain your regular alcohol and pizza intake and have the body that will grab the attention of any woman ("The Training Secrets of Xena, the Warrior Princess" is available for the ladies ). Offer limited to the first one hundred suckers..er, callers."

Oh yeah!

[sarguy]

Oh yeah, "In just 10 minutes a day, from the comfort of your couch in front of your entertainment system, you can learn how to defeat the very gods themselves! But, for a limited time only, you can also receive the never-before-released "The Body of Adonis". Learn how to maintain your regular alcohol and pizza intake and have the body that will grab the attention of any woman ("The Training Secrets of Xena, the Warrior Princess" is available for the ladies ). Offer limited to the first one hundred suckers..er, callers."

Oh yeah!

Ha! That reminds me of the old LLAP GOCH! ads:
http://www.llapgoch.org.uk/

Fear No Man!

I'll make you a MASTER of LLAP-Goch ... the Secret Welsh ART of SELF DEFENCE that requires NO INTELLIGENCE, STRENGTH or PHYSICAL courage.

The FANTASTIC SECRETS of the SECRET world-famous method of SELF DEFENCE, kept secret for centuries because of their DEADLY POWER to MAIM, KILL, SMASH, BATTER, FRACTURE, CRUSH, DISMEMBER, CRACK, DISEMBOWEL, CRIPPLE, SNAP and HARM are now revealed to YOU in the English Language by a LLAP-GOCH master AT HIS OWN RISK, PROVIDED you promise to MAIM, CRUSH, DISEMBOWEL and so on ONLY in SELF DEFENCE. (This is just to cover ourselves, as you will understand.)

WHY "At his own risk?"
BECAUSE if his fellow masters of LLAP-GOCH DISCOVER his IDENTITY, they will PUNISH HIM SEVERELY for revealing the DEADLY secrets he had promised to keep SECRET, without giving them a piece of the ACTION, and also BECAUSE of the TERRIBLE risk of PUNISHMENT he runs under the Trades Description Act.

WHAT is LLAP-GOCH?
IT is THE most DEADLY form OF SECRET self-DEFENCE that HAS ever been widely advertised and available to EVERYONE.

WHY ALL the CAPITALS?
Because THE most likely kind OF person TO answer THIS sort OF advertisement HAS less trouble under-STANDING words if they ARE written in BIG letters.

WHAT is LLAP-GOCH again?
It is an ANCIENT Welsh ART based on a BRILLIANTLY simple I-D-E-A, which is a SECRET. The best form of DEFENCE is ATTACK (Clausewitz) and the most VITAL element of ATTACK is SURPRISE (Oscar HAMMERstein). Therefore, the BEST way to protect yourself AGAINST any ASSAILANT is to ATTACK him before he attacks YOU... Or BETTER... BEFORE the THOUGHT of doing so has EVEN OCCURRED TO HIM!!! SO YOU MAY BE ABLE TO RENDER YOUR ASSAILANT UNCONSCIOUS BEFORE he is EVEN aware of your very existence!

No longer need you feel WEAK, helpless, INDECISIVE, NOT fascinating and ASHAMED of your genital dimensions. No more need you be out-manoeuvred in political debate!! GOOD BYE HUMILIATION, wisecracking bullies, Karate experts, boxing champions, sarcastic vicars, traffic wardens; entire panzer divisions will melt to pulp as you master every situation without INADEQUACY. PROTECT YOUR LOVED ONES. You will no longer look pitiful and spotty to your GIRL FRIENDS when you leave some unsuspecting passer-by looking like four tins of cat food! They will admire your MASTERY and DECISIVENESS and LACK OF INADEQUACY and will almost certainly let you put your HAND inside their BLOUSE out of sheer ADMIRATION. And after seeing more of your expert disabling they'll almost definitely go to bed with you, although obviously we can't ABSOLUTELY guarantee this, still it's extremely likely and would make learning LLAP-GOCH really worthwhile although legally we can't PROMISE anything.

Why WELSH Art?
LLAP-GOCH was developed in Wales because for the average Welshman, the best prospects of achieving a reasonable standard of living lie with the acquisition of the most efficient techniques of armed robbery.

HOW do I learn?
No, you mean "How do You Learn". I know already.

HOW do You Learn?
You receive ABSOLUTELY FREE your own special personal LLAP-GOCH Picture Book with hundreds of PHOTOGRAPHS and just a very few plain, clear and simple, easy to understand words.
Only a FOUR-SECOND WORK-OUT Each Day!
And you will be ready to HARM people!

    * DEVELOP UP TO 38" BICEPS
    * GROW UP TO 12" TALLER
    * LOSE UP TO 40" OF FAT IN YOUR FIRST WORK-OUT!
    * PROLONG YOUR LIFE BY UP TO 1,000 YEARS
    * GO TO BED WITH UP TO ANY LUDICROUS NUMBER OF GIRLS YOU CARE TO THINK OF PROVIDING YOU REALIZE THIS STATEMENT IS QUITE MEANINGLESS AS THE PHRASE "UP TO" CLEARLY INCLUDES THE NUMBER "NOUGHT".

WHAT Does it Cost?
This, like LLAP-GOCH, is a SECRET but you will find out sooner or later, don't worry.

FILL IN DARING HAIR-RAISING MONEY-SAVING HALF-PRICE NO-RISK FREE-TRIAL FORM NOW!

O.K. Honourable Master, I accept your daring, hair-raising, mind-boggling, blood-curdling, no-risk, half-price, free-trial offer to reveal the secrets of LLAP-GOCH in a plain wrapper at once. Yes Master, I never again want to be 'Weak In The Knees' and 'Chicken Out' and 'Wet My Pants' when insulted and attacked.

I agree never to abuse the principles of LLAP-GOCH or consult a lawyer.

I am over 4.

I have an extra Y chromosome.

Bill me later. I understand that if I am not completely satisfied I have been had.

[Kentbob]

Sarguy, that was hilarious.  I wonder if LLAP-Goch actually translates to anything, like sucker or dumbass.


Kent

[arnold]

But did anybody besides me notice that they all had on Kentbob Superhero type approved boots... eh

[Hock]

Which leads me BACK to my age-old question.

If that was WW I Combatives?
What is so special and pioneering about WW II Combatives?
I think this is a point to discuss.

Hock

[JimH]

WWI combatives ,from my reading was started by a Captain O'Brien and a Captain Smith,both Jujitsu Black Belts trained in Japan.
These men were directed to start a H2H training program as Jujitsu was seen as an answer to trench warfare.
These men beagn to teach their skills on a limited level in 1917-1918.
The Army though believed that their system,which was in place prior to these men's activities were better and the Jujitsu did not go very far.
(some have said this WWI film was made for propaganda purposes to instill fear in the enemy)

WWII comes around and men like Captain Smith were still involved in teaching Jujitsu to the military,then we had Biddle and the USMC,and others who saw a need for something more during the end of WWI and had been training to use a jujitsu,boxing,wrestling mix.

The most influential use of Jujitsu based materials was acquired and taught by Fairbairn.
It was seen as a more concise program,easy to teach,easy to learn and effective for close in H2H.

Fairbairn's methods,along with others along the way to include men mentioned at the start of this,was taught to Britsh and American Rangers and Commando types,it was taught to the OSS and SOE,and portions filtered into US Military H2H across the board,US Army,USMC,US Navy and each branch had men who created systems of usage which became variations of WWII Combatives.(With Fairbairn's being the easiest to implement)

We had Fairbairn,Sykes,O'Neil,Styers,Biddle,Smith,Wesley Brown and many others.

So while men like Captain's O'Brien and Smith had a hand in the start of jujitsu implementation in the US Army in WWI,it did not take off until WWII and the best proponent was by far Fairbairn's development.

Just my view from my readings on these men and these arts.
I am sure others with more research can add more.

[markal]

Just out of curiosity - does anyone know what constituted hand to hand or combatives training prior to that developed by Captains O'Brien and Smith for the US Military?

[JimH]

Prior to O'Brien and Smith H2H was Basic Boxing,Basic Wrestling and Basic weapons disarms based on those two arts.

[Cyphre]

Which leads me BACK to my age-old question.

If that was WW I Combatives?
What is so special and pioneering about WW II Combatives?
I think this is a point to discuss.

Hock

Having seen the manuals and Cestari films, etc on Fairbairn's stuff, I was somewhat surprised to see pretty much all the useful stuff in Marriot's WW1 manual....being the case-hardened, copper-jacketed cynic that I am, I reckon the WWII stuff is just rehashed WWI stuff..only not as nasty.....let the arguments commence! Huzzah!

[JimH]

WWI Jujitsu was introduced by men who had studied in Japan ,at the Kodokan,and reached a minimum of Black Belt.
They never went away they continued teaching the military and refing the techniques from WWI to and through WWII.

Fairbairn and O'Neil obtained Black Belts from the Kodokan as well ,using the SAME Teachings as taught to the Men who trained in Japan at the Kodokan Years prior.
(so similarity is to be expected)

The difference between the WWI and WWII techniques are that they were more refined,more concise,More NASTY,and More Deadly in their directness of Offensive ,over defensive,strikes and application.

The techniques may seem similar but the implimentation and purposeful usage in eliminating the enemy is more enhanced in the WWII version ,mostly through the teachings of Fairbairn.

Again the need for a different skill set,aside from Boxing and wrestling was needed for the soldiers fighting in Trench warfare
Jujitsu techniques were found useful and were implemented, that  was the nucleus  which spurred further study,research and refinement,which set about the use of Jujitsu and Judo techniques in the Militaries until the 80's and the change to submission over elimination of the enemy on the battlefield.

Just my view of the progression.