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  • February 07, 2012, 04:43:26 AM
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Author Topic: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?  (Read 4688 times)

sarguy

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Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« on: August 19, 2010, 06:49:27 PM »

Just kind of thinking out loud here...with all the Jim Wagners and Moni Aiziks and every flavor of political infighting under the Israeli sun. Who's real? At this point I'd sooner join the Israeli military and learn it myself (and some of those Israeli army chicks are HOT...).
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Hock

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2010, 07:50:58 PM »

Robb Hamic has been over there and has some very strong opinions on that.

http://www.fakeselfdefenseinstructors.com/

I knew some Krav guys in New York area and Australia, pre-Levine and pre-fad days. All good guys. All of then benefited by the Darren Levine induced, late 1990s, early 2000s boom by his advertising spending for his version of what I call "Los Angeles Krav Maga."

Hock
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 09:38:55 AM by Hock »
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Elad

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2010, 10:52:27 PM »

Hello everyone,

actually, the most honest, authentic, and real deal instructor out there is Nir Maman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvYtktAbXjk&feature=search

He is the only instructor in all of North America who teaches the actual Krav Maga system as it is taught and used in the Israeli Military, unlike every single civilian  Krav Maga organization.

He was in charge of training all the Us special forces units that go to Israel to learn Counter terror.

Elad
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robbhamic

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 01:06:09 AM »

I appreciate all of the support from Hock's forum.  I am doing a multi-part story on true Krav Maga on my blog.  It will separate the truth from the bullshit.  Here is a recent story.  I have been to Israel and I have fully investigated the truth.  It is not political but it was hard to figure out.  The Israeli Krav Maga Association is Imi Lichtenfeld's original and only club.  His fighting is updated by his successor Grand Mater Haim Gidon.  I was there and trained day and night for three and a half weeks.  This system is the real thing and the fighting or "retzev" is what separates it from all others. In my opinion, it is the best in the world and his been taught continuously as a military system since 1948.  It has been continually taught to citizens since 1971 and it works for everyone.  It is not an upstart system with one instructor.

The IKMA is not an over commercialized organization and the training is still in Imi's own club on his original mat.  They don't have a ton of advertising and many of the organizations that make false or inflated claims have spent hundreds of thousands to make millions while this small organization just produces the most authentic and updated material every year.

We have clubs around the world and Haim travels to the US twice a year to give an instructor's course at David Kahn's club in New Jersey.  There are two international instructor's courses in Israel each year. July/ December.

Anyone can e-mail me to find a club close or I will arrange for interested people to attend instructor courses if you are qualified.  Take a look at my blog:
http://www.fakeselfdefenseinstructors.com/2010/08/the-only-history-of-krav-maga-.html

Take a look at David Kahn's DVD trailer that is about to be released in a month or so to see the fighting:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRFR7HB5Kho

My website is: http://www.israelikravmaga.us  and my email is: robb@summitselfdefense.com

Stay safe and watch out for big claims or things that don't make sense.  I would only listen to people who give their real information.

Respectfully,

Robb Hamic
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sarguy

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 05:07:01 AM »

Wow, thanks for the thoughtful replies. Looks like good reading.
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 07:58:20 AM »

Just kind of thinking out loud here...with all the Jim Wagners and Moni Aiziks and every flavor of political infighting under the Israeli sun. Who's real? At this point I'd sooner join the Israeli military and learn it myself (and some of those Israeli army chicks are HOT...).

White Wolf take note!

Joe
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side"

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Elad

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2010, 09:01:14 AM »

Hello Rob,

nice posting about IKMA and krav maga. IKMA is certanly th ebest out of the civilian systems, but no one of the civilian organizations is a military system including IKMA. What we do in the IDF, especialy in the special force is same in principal very different approach and methods.

Elad
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Canuk

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2010, 11:10:34 AM »

Elad,

Can you tell us the differences? aside from teh marketing side of things. Id assume its still close with the enemy and kill/maim him as fast as you can you brutal and direct methods?
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Hock

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2010, 11:36:28 AM »

And who did Darren Levine train under?

Hock

SileyEric

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 03:06:00 PM »

Hock,

It's been about 10 years since I trained at one of your seminars, and I look forward to seeing you in September in Kansas City.  I've been training in Krav Maga for over 10 years, and have been teaching for 7 years.

I've enjoyed most of Rob Hamic's work on www.fakeselfdefenseinstructors.com, and I recently sent him a message saying as much, and adding a couple of points.  One of those points is that there is a certain amount of outing the phonies that is helpful, and then a point at which we begin in-fighting within the legitimate Krav Maga community.  The public has no understanding of the issues involving politics, money, and succession.

There has been high-level Krav Maga practiced in the U.S. for many years now.  I received all of my instructor training through Krav Maga Worldwide, under Darren Levine's group.  I haven't spoken with Darren in years, and I doubt he'd know me on sight.  I'm no longer a member of KMWW, not due to any problems, but I've started my own school and am being careful how I spend my money.

Darren was part of a group of Americans who were invited to Israel to train in the early 80's, and all of the training was provided by the IKMA.  Anyone can log on to www.kravmaga.com and see the certificates of authenticity, which are all on IKMA letterhead.  There are some legitimate criticisms of KMWW, which I'll get to, but I think it's a mistake to question Darren's legitimacy, or the quality of instructors he has produced.

There have been a few hatchet jobs on him, such as the one by USADOJO, implying that he bought his credentials and took advantage of Imi when he was very old, but anyone who has ever trained with Darren or seen him practicing knows he practices Krav Maga at a very high level.  Darren built the largest and most successful reality-based self defense organization in the world, and provides a very large target.

The money he spent marketing created a Krav Maga brand within the U.S., and both the phonies and other legitimate organizations have benefited from that.  Rob has done some great work with his website, but I recently saw the article about Eyal Yanilov, another senior figure in the KM community, stating he is a thief and stole money from the IKMA. 

When I first started reading Rob's blog, he had links stating that Eyal and his organization (IKMF) were the SOURCE for Krav Maga training.  Anyone I know who has trained with Eyal thinks he is a fantastic instructor, and holds him in high regard.  If there has been any impropriety, it should be handled within an organization or the legal system.  No one who has ever taken a seminar with Eyal was cheated out of their time or money....

To me, it is very easy to tell the real stuff from the fake stuff.  Look at the line to Imi on instructor certificates (how far removed, who is the teacher), and look at video.  It is easy to tell that the IKMA/IKMF/KMWW techniques are very similar, and show a common root, as well as the drills.

I'll share a few thoughts on what I think the legitimate criticisms are of KMWW and the larger community - but it has nothing to do with Krav Maga technique or training, which is unfortunate.  People love a flame war.  I'd rather see them training, getting stronger and safer....
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Hock

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2010, 03:39:24 PM »

I have a hard time keeping all these names straight, but Hamic has a newly listed document that helps on his webpage.  

I think Levine, with the help of NAPMA swept through country, then the whole world with his outfit, then it crumbled to almost nothing because it was a terrible and expensive business module. Many of my friends really suffered over the contracts and fees he designed. Just a bad business module. I think he mixed the then up-and-coming modern-looking "combatives" look with the worst classical, martial arts blood sucking style tithing operation.

It all seemed new and great until you had to write the checks. AND I don't think he did that to "take the money and run," or any such evil thing at all. I think they thought it was a sustainable gravy train. But I have been in the martial arts since the 1970s and I could recognize the classic, brick wall.

My friends in the other older Krav schools all benefited by the Levine advertising. People would call up any Krav in their local phone book (remember phone books) and they would get students.

I've never met Levine. I am sure he is a nice guy and when his wife died it was a terrible thing. I really, really  empathize with him over that. Terrible thing. I have never met Hamic. I just admire him and his balls to take on anyone publicly. For example, we all have been ranting about Jim Wagner here for years and when Hamic got after him? Within a few months Wagner is GONE from Black Belt Magazine! I am sure if you brought some of these points up on his webpage, he'd respond intelligently.

Hock
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 04:08:59 PM by Hock »
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whitewolf

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2010, 08:40:08 PM »

Got it Joe- Haim Gidons chief instructor in Poland was one of the instructors that I met and took training from- I also am in contact with them in Israel- Retsuv (continuing motion) was discussed at every class in  Poland-hopefully I will get to Israel and train .
WW
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2010, 04:11:10 AM »

You are talking in circles again.  No one is disputing that "you took some training" with some KM guys.  The fact is that you are not a certified KM instructor- that's the point!

Over the years I have trained with numerous JKD groups but never been certified.  What do you think the perception of my peers would be if I suddenly started to offer JKD classes to generate more income?  

Heed the Professor's words- the ignorant are always forgiven.  

Joe
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.  There's also a negative side"

Hunter S. Thompson

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Visit My Blog: http://joehubbard.wordpress.com

Hock

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2010, 07:38:27 AM »

As I said before WW, I know people in Krav that I can set you up with....

Hock

(I will probably move this thread up to Unarmed Combatives in a bit)

whitewolf

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Re: Are there ANY reputable sources of Krav Maga?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2010, 08:37:45 AM »

Hovk- thank you-unless something happens Ill see you at Talahoma and we can have a beer after training-Richard (WW)
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