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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • February 08, 2012, 10:44:40 PM
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Author Topic: Lines in the sand  (Read 972 times)

Hock

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 04:00:31 PM »

But it is easy to see how an ignorant person or a detached foreigner would automatically just assume that all the writers were slave owners. Like slavery, the religion of the founding fathers is always debated too. Atheists screw the founding father stories their anti-god way. Religious people screw the founding fathers to their God. I have no dog in that hunt and I don't really care either way. But these guys were praying all the time. To who or exactly what?    

George Washington:
"there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it."

John Adams:
"Every measure of prudence, therefore, ought to be assumed for the eventual total extirpation of slavery from the United States…. I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in …abhorrence." "[My opinion against it slavery has always been known. Never in my life did I own a slave."

Benjamin Franklin:
"Slavery is …an atrocious debasement of human nature."Franklin explained that this separation from Britain was necessary since every attempt among the Colonies to end slavery had been thwarted or reversed by the British Crown. In fact, in the years following America's separation from Great Britain, many of the Founding Fathers who had owned slaves released them (e.g., John Dickinson, Ceasar Rodney, William Livingston, George Washington, George Wythe, John Randolph, and others).”
Benjamin Rush "Domestic slavery is repugnant to the principles of Christianity... It is rebellion against the authority of a common Father. It is a practical denial of the extent and efficacy of the death of a common Savior. It is an usurpation of the prerogative of the great Sovereign of the universe who has solemnly claimed an exclusive property in the souls of men."

Alexander Hamilton:
"The laws of certain states …give an ownership in the service of negroes as personal property…. But being men, by the laws of God and nature, they were capable of acquiring liberty—and when the captor in war …thought fit to give them liberty, the gift was not only valid, but irrevocable."

James Madison:
"We have seen the mere distinction of colour made in the most enlightened period of time, a ground of the most oppressive dominion ever exercised by man over man."

    A nuanced study of these founding fathers and revolutionaries, and certainly northern ones shows many were against slavery. In 1775 and 1776 It was in a bizarre compromise to unify the country against the Brits. Also north and south states that caught slavery in the "what is or is not a citizen," definition, which precluded some rights to non land-owners, white or otherwise.  
    All the northern politicians like John Adams, new that the country would not be whole until the slavery issue was resolved. It was a key piece of the Civil War 1861 to 1865. (1776 to 1865 - not a century)

    And so, the country was/is a work in evolved progress (The USA was organized in a compromise, and exists on a slow compromise). But in the end of this song/clip we see Martin Luther King still chanting great ideas and people quoting the Constitution and Declaration of Independence ideals, because normal people believe in them and want them. We’d like to get to back to the plan. Back on this track, to these written ideals.

Right now we are all economic slaves. The system is built so that we just can make just
enough to get by, unless you get some lucky trick or break. They got you covered at every turn, to snare any tax penny they can, any time.

The USA government is a growing Frankenstein monster.

Hock
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 04:12:40 PM by Hock »
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arnold

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 08:03:26 PM »

That's it! Nancy Pelosi is the bride of Frankenstein!
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Kentbob

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 03:08:16 PM »

Frankly, I don't see why you should be so pissed at the United States.  I agree, it's easier to look back in the past and see some of our decisions as not so good.  It's important to remember that everyone has an agenda when ideas are presented, such as the backing of Bin Laden and similar such moves. 

That being said, as is common all over the country, many people are willing just to take someone's word that something is true.  You get the the "Jim Wagner's of politics" in there, willing to say anything in order to further their interests, which are seldom in the interests of the country or even the world.  Few people, elected or otherwise, are willing to do the research in order to prevent some of these bad decisions from happening.

Kent
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sarguy

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2010, 05:20:12 AM »

I just happened upon this article while researching period language for a book:

http://etymonline.com/columns/frenchslavery.htm

Just some food for thought.
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Hock

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2010, 10:01:00 AM »

I saw some of the football season opener last night. I don't care too much about either the Saints or the Vikings. I like an old guy as quarterback. I like the Saints a bit because the the New Orleans thing.

But my real concern is how will these or any other winning team affect the Dallas Cowboys, (or Titans) strategically down the line as the season progresses.

Frankly, I start rooting for teams I really HATE in games to beat teams that might later beat the Cowboys in key times.

World politics is like that. There has been some discussion here that Ronald Reagen was some kind of Stalin war criminal. Stalin of course we all know, the communist/fascist dictator ordered, as did Hitler, the direct assassination of entire races of people.

Reagen was involved in beating the Russian communists out of central and South America. Supporting the ant- communists governments with guns and some troop help. It was these locals that killed people in atrocities. Those rogue and out of control of Reagen. If America could only help pristine and pure countries it could only help Canada and Iceland. Soon the three of us pure countries would be overrun by vicious, cheating, bad guns with guns and nuke bombs. Pure, but fucking dead.

But America haters like to paint Reagen as a murderous mastermind pulling the strings of Hispanic people. Nope. He was just hoping that the Eagles would beat the Redskins just enough times so that the Cowboys could secure a birth in the playoff without being a wild card.

Politics make strange bedfellows. All this has to be viewed in direct context to the time, or the "season" and schedule of the..."great games."

Hock     

arnold

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2010, 06:11:37 AM »

Kentbob,
YA wanna know why he pissed? Canada has no Super Hero! Think about it...
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Bryan

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2010, 08:43:09 AM »

Wardog, your trying to read way to much into the video. Its just some guys trying to sell music mixing in some patriotism. If they were half of what you have said why would they have two obvious middle eastern accented guys say "We The People" unless an editor slipped that in on them?

Seems to me you have some very extreme views. I have some serious problems with right and left wing extremist politics, to me the video was more middle of the road. I certainly did not view it as gay bashing or racist. It is funny to see you defend gay rights then find it acceptable to slag off religions and offend others. Maybe you would be happier running a dictatorship somewhere.

Kentbob

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2010, 01:27:06 PM »

The two of you could run one together!  You could both join the Taliban, help them get back in power, and turn Afghanistan into a utopia where everyone is welcome.

I like this idea, and I'd be excited to chip in for your plane ticket to Douchebagistan.


Kent
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Bryan

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2010, 04:12:45 PM »

Kent Bob, I don't get off on telling people what to do or how to live. To be honest it bores the hell out of me. Your the control freak that hates Muslims. Its the extreme right wing of the country, the christian right wing that would have America ran as a fascist state where being born into or choosing the wrong religion is held against people.

You don't like my religion so you suggest I'm a terrorist sympathizer when in fact I support the U.S. Army and its mission right or wrong.  Were you not one of the morons claiming we should nuke Mekka a couple years back? I remember you had some dumb comment about Saudi Arabia in your signature then you changed it. What was that? "Saudi Arabia must be destroyed" or something close to it. At the same time you were saying that stupidity, American politicians were arming and training the Saudi Gov or Saudi Dictatorship depending on your views. In the end it was George Bush who was over there in Saudi dancing around with a sword, not me.

Readers, you would think right wing blow hards would be happy a guy like me is in the middle of the affairs of a mosque, that I'm there to watch for any nonsense, to confront it. Instead all you see is simple minded ignorant types telling me I should move to Afghanistan to take up arms against my own country. 

Kentbob

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2010, 06:18:16 PM »

I didn't tell you to do anything, I suggested it.  For the record, I'm not Christian, and I feel only slightly better about Christianity than I do about Islam.  I don't hate the people, I hate the ideologies.  This is probably a distinction that is lost on you.  It's easier for you to be the victim.

Yes...I said, and still say, that Saudi Arabia should be destroyed.  For a variety of reasons, not just the least of which being the birthplace of Islam.  The thing is, Bryan, you can't even remember what you say from one minute to the next.  You have tried to tell us that the Q'uran does not say the things that it says, specifically about beating women and lying to "unbelievers" if I remember correctly.  So, since you're a Muslim, nothing you say can be trusted. 

I thought Thailand was your country?  Thing is, you've been all over the map, Alaska, Texas, Thailand, now Arkansas...claiming to do some sort of James Bond stuff, threatening me, helping start a mosque, trying to prove the peaceful intent of your fellow Muslims, carrying out your vendettas against guys like Marc Denny, or anyone else who says something that you don't care for about Islam.  Then trying to get sympathy from people on this board by claiming to be a very moderate fellow.  At one point you even said something about fighting in the Gaza...  A guy like you isn't capable of confronting anything, or anyone, especially not in his own religion.  You're such a tool, you're Home Depot.  Or pawn, if you prefer chess metaphors.  Your claim to support the U.S. Army is spurious at best.  What you really do is run around this forum, posting stories about the gory incidents in Thailand, claiming some sort of knife expertise because you're a blacksmith, and generally arguing about the sort of thing that noobs and wannabes argue about.  Frankly, I want you to stick around this board so that I can continue to have examples to point to, "Don't be like this guy..."


But you're still an oxygen thief.

Kent
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Bryan

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2010, 08:13:07 PM »

I didn't tell you to do anything, I suggested it.  For the record, I'm not Christian, and I feel only slightly better about Christianity than I do about Islam.  I don't hate the people, I hate the ideologies.  This is probably a distinction that is lost on you.  It's easier for you to be the victim.

Yes...I said, and still say, that Saudi Arabia should be destroyed.  For a variety of reasons, not just the least of which being the birthplace of Islam.  The thing is, Bryan, you can't even remember what you say from one minute to the next.  You have tried to tell us that the Q'uran does not say the things that it says, specifically about beating women and lying to "unbelievers" if I remember correctly.  So, since you're a Muslim, nothing you say can be trusted. 

I thought Thailand was your country?  Thing is, you've been all over the map, Alaska, Texas, Thailand, now Arkansas...claiming to do some sort of James Bond stuff, threatening me, helping start a mosque, trying to prove the peaceful intent of your fellow Muslims, carrying out your vendettas against guys like Marc Denny, or anyone else who says something that you don't care for about Islam.  Then trying to get sympathy from people on this board by claiming to be a very moderate fellow.  At one point you even said something about fighting in the Gaza...  A guy like you isn't capable of confronting anything, or anyone, especially not in his own religion.  You're such a tool, you're Home Depot.  Or pawn, if you prefer chess metaphors.  Your claim to support the U.S. Army is spurious at best.  What you really do is run around this forum, posting stories about the gory incidents in Thailand, claiming some sort of knife expertise because you're a blacksmith, and generally arguing about the sort of thing that noobs and wannabes argue about.  Frankly, I want you to stick around this board so that I can continue to have examples to point to, "Don't be like this guy..."


But you're still an oxygen thief.

Kent

So you dont hate the people within the religion, you just want to run America like a plantation where anyone that disagrees with you is told to get the fuck out.

Now your back on the record saying Saudi Arabia should be destroyed because its the birthplace of Islam. You don't hate Muslims, you just want to burn and murder them including women and children because they are Muslim. You don't hate Muslims, you just want to bomb and burn all the mosques. You dont hate Muslims, you just want to deny them U.S. Citizenship for practicing Islam, a religion you know nothing about.

Your are right about some things, I'm well traveled and Ive done some interesting stuff. You on the other hand are still a dumb ass kid to dumb to know when the conversation is over your head. You got out of the Army to start a martial arts school and it was a complete failure so you crawled back home to moms and pops and as far as I know you still live at home with mommy and daddy. You were broke so you joined the reserves to try and get some cash, bullshited your way into sniper school then failed to understand the basics so you got dropped.  You may have good fitness now but that's just because your still young. We all had great fitness back in the day, well see if you ever do anything exciting and survive that, see how many passports you can fill up, see if you ever go anywhere else beyond a 5 minute walk from your mommas tit. In the end you can have all the fitness you want and still be a dumb ass, the thing is you will only be a kid for so long then you will not have any more excuses. 

Kentbob

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2010, 08:16:52 PM »

Thank you, Bryan, for a huge smile.


 ;D

Hopefully now you feel better.

Kent
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Bryan

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Re: Lines in the sand
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2010, 09:20:17 PM »

Thank you, Bryan, for a huge smile.


 ;D

Hopefully now you feel better.

Kent

Kent Bob,  I'm bored with you now.
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