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[mleone]

Forget training with live blades. A rubber Brittish Commando blade like this one
http://www.iisports.com/assets/images/product/iispaintball/Large_Photos/WO5200A-H0.jpg

Get some white t-shirts and some lipstick and simulate the cuts! That simple. If you want to get cut simulate it. You have to remember when your cut due to adrenaline your body gives off cortisol. Read up you might find some interesting facts.

I understand that the blade would be realistic if we reacted as if it were real. So I dont debase that. How ever think of the risk you run with your students.

[DFischer]

I'm new to the board and was reading past articles. This article was interesting to me because I had seen a situation first hand. I was in the Army (Infantry) and we were called to Panama. While were at the airport in formation my buddy Eric who was from Chicago  had Kung Fu experience. Eric and I would work out together and always seem to talk martial arts. Someone in formation heard us talking and asked Eric if he could defend himself from a knife. Eric said, "No Problem." Well this guy took out his bayonet and told Erik to defend himself. The guy attacked with the Angle 2 slash and Eric tried a Knife hand block and missed. The guy ended up slicing Eric's wrist. It did not seem bad and Eric was bleeding little, he laughed and went to the medic with his pride broken. I finally seen Eric  when he arrived in panama on light duty and asked if he was ok. He said he could not believe a little slice like that did so much damage. He lost movement in his lower fingers, and the doctor said it was perminate. So I personally believe training is training and you do the best you can and make all the mistakes you can and learn from them while training therefore if something real does present itself, hopefully as little mistakes are made as possible.

[Curran]

Dont tellme there are nutters out there who train with real blades ?

Hmmm maybe I should start a post "Training with real guns and live ammunition and see what responses I get 

Again, i disclaim if anyone follows this course of action; this isn't for everyone nor do I advocate it to anyone.  It's potentially dangerous even under controlled circumstances.  Normally, we'll do some of this with the hubud drills, grab weapon bearing limb drills, etc.  On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the fastest, we go at .5 to 3.  It's strictly for a reality check just so I don't get complacent with plastic or aluminum weapons.

Also, this is based on  personal research (as the development of any personal protection program should be)and several experiences; I live in a city ranked 3rd highest in Canada for edged weapon attacks:  about 1300/100,000 persons(there's only 120,000 or so here). 

Again, definitely not for everyone. 

Hopefully this'll make for an interesting discussion topic.

thanks all, and be safe out there!

[DFischer]

Opps, after reading my post, I do not think I was clear at the end. I do not believe in training with real blades.

[Chuck Burnett]

I built a prototype stun/training knife a year or so back. It was definitely an interesting motivator to develop elusive movement and a quick"live" hand.

Fell apart quickly as it was just a cheap stun gun cobbled together with two pieces of 14 gauge stranded wire running parallel up the edge of a foam "blade".

I'll see if I can put one together for the Vegas weekend.

Stun guns are great for enlightening grapplers about the dangers of concealed weapons in ground fighting.

Chuck

[Professor]

I built a prototype stun/training knife a year or so back. It was definitely an interesting motivator to develop elusive movement and a quick"live" hand.

Fell apart quickly as it was just a cheap stun gun cobbled together with two pieces of 14 gauge stranded wire running parallel up the edge of a foam "blade".

I'll see if I can put one together for the Vegas weekend.

Stun guns are great for enlightening grapplers about the dangers of concealed weapons in ground fighting.

Chuck

Chuck!!!!!!   Now that's entertainment!!!!

[seanross]

Looking down at the top of my left hand, I have 8 small scars.  On the top of my right hand, I have three small scars.  Most of these are in the V made by thumb and forefinger.  A few years before I met Hock, I replaced all my chrome kungfu weapons with sharp ones.  Aside from the cuts in my hands made with knives, I nearly hamstrung myself once imitating a cool "show" move with a sharp chinese "gim" sword. I also nearly cut off an ear once with a chinese broadsword.

I continue to do solo command and mastery with sharp weapons-knives, swords and spear.  I haven't cut myself in over two years!  That doesn't mean I won't cut myself next week.

If it took me 5 years of solo work to stop cutting myself with sharp knives and swords, I wouldn't expect it to take much less time throwing in the chaos of a partner.  I think I like the lipstick idea best.

[Hock]

While living in the mountains of Georgia I had the luxury of several wooden "war Posts" that I built. You will see them on some of my DVDs. I would walk out to
them and beat them with real knives and sticks fpr a workout.

I learned to carry a towel with me because the knife would sometimes chip and bouce off the wooden arm and torso of the posts or my free hand would barely slip in the way of the knife. Nothing serious, but that towel was handy. I always adocate bringing a towel when you do such things.

Now I live in suburbia and noise generated into the neighborhood by whacking those posts would be..well...criminal. I try to dream up some substitutes...working on it.

"The old tale is...it is not your knife until you have bled on it," menaing that you have used it so, so much and in some many ways, an acident or two has happened.

Absolutly nothing replaces hitting a war post with a real knife. I would say it some of the most important training I have ever done.

There was an old tale years back that when a ghurka drew his kukri, legend has it he cannot resheath it until it had "caused some bleeding/ had been bled on."

Through the years I have met some British commanders who were unit officers in charge of Gurka units- you may recall Major Corrigan (ret) who wrote for our CQC Magazine?) They told me this was nonsense. The Ghurkas were using their knives for all kind of everyday tasks, collecting firewood, or whatever.

Hock

[Chris Roberts]

A sad example of live-blade training........ from BBC news today...

"A police officer has been arrested on suspicion of murder after his son died from a stab wound to the heart.
Conor Johnson, 11, died in hospital after suffering the fatal injury at his home in Norfolk Road, Littlehampton, West Sussex, on Saturday night.

His father Ian, 39, a constable with Sussex Police, was arrested and bailed until 11 September.

It is believed he was teaching his son martial arts. Police are investigating if the death was crime or an accident.

Friends of the family said Mr Johnson was a decent man who adored his son. "

I hope I never have to go through the same grief the father is going through at the moment, but if this was indeed a training accident I would like know what the hell was going through his head when 'training' his son with a live blade........

[Professor]

A sad example of live-blade training........ from BBC news today...

"A police officer has been arrested on suspicion of murder after his son died from a stab wound to the heart.
Conor Johnson, 11, died in hospital after suffering the fatal injury at his home in Norfolk Road, Littlehampton, West Sussex, on Saturday night.

His father Ian, 39, a constable with Sussex Police, was arrested and bailed until 11 September.

It is believed he was teaching his son martial arts. Police are investigating if the death was crime or an accident.

Friends of the family said Mr Johnson was a decent man who adored his son. "

I hope I never have to go through the same grief the father is going through at the moment, but if this was indeed a training accident I would like know what the hell was going through his head when 'training' his son with a live blade........

Wow.   I feel his grief.....

[seanross]

Today, I had my guys over at my house for some training.  After doing circuits on heavy bag, uppercut bag, speed bag, weapons dummy and ground heavy bag, we reviewed some of the pistol disarms from the Albuquerque seminar last week.  Then... we brought out the zucchini and apples!

No, we didn't have a weird snack.  The zucchini was courtesy of an overabundant plant and the apples came from my neighbors tree.  We played catch with the zucchini with a guy in the middle with a knife.  The zucchini were aimed at the knife holders head.  As he dodged the zucchini, he slashed out with his knife and tried to cut the zucchini mid flight.  Good fun.  Good training.  Good use of zucchini.  Then we got out the apples and threw them at each other and tried to catch the apples with the point of the blade to practice tip control.  For me, the high point was trying out one of my guys tomahawks on the zucchini!