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[jmech]

I heard about this on another forum and was wondering if anyone on here has seen it-Apparently the National Geographic Channel on their "Is it real?" show had a segment on Dillman and his one-touch knock outs and found them not to work.  apparently Dillman made several excuses such as the guy's tongue being in the wrong place and the guy possibly had the toe of one foot up and the toe of the other foot down.  I was looking to verify this and just get others' reactions.

For those that have not yet seen this (myself included) it looks like it will be aired again on sunday 8/21 at 6pm.

Joe

[kayakpirate]

I saw the show your talking about. Its this kind of shameless self promotion
and fairy tale claims that make  me feel ill.Theres people who follow this nonsense
and because of their own pursuit of power, encourage these medicine shows. Didnt he also claim to knock people out without touchiong them?
I also have seen the one touch knock outs that appear to be quite complicated
and rely on your attacker being both very stupid and not retracting their one and only punch.
I cant recall seeing this work on somebody going "buzzsaw" on the supposed martial arts messiah.

[Trembula]

I have seen a few one touch knock-outs that I believed. And to the person getting KO'ed, it did not matter what position they were in because the only place they were going was DOWN.

They happened in full speed, real time, against a resisting opponent and the strike landed right on the pressure point the victor was after. I was a believer in these one shot KO's before I saw them seeing them only convinced me to train harder....

These magical targets and techniques?

Solar Plexus, Liver, floating ribs

Straight Right, Left or Right Hook for the most part. 

[sneaky]

Hi All, This stuff is right up there with ice breaks and pine boards baked in the oven etc , could you imagine ? now if you wouldnt mind holding your left big toe for me like so and an arm like this whilst i  dim mak you into the ever after all will be fine ? ! ? too funny , cept for the poor buggers who pay to learn the "secret death touch" one shot knockout ? rabbit punch will do it  to quote Bart Simpson "come on touch of death !!!!!!!!!!!! " , all the best , sneaky .   

[Milldog1776]

I had a 1 touch knockout once!

I happened to be holding a 2X2 at the time, but I only had to touch him once. 

[JimH]

I have seen a Knockout from a palm heel strike to the forehead and I have seen knockouts from a Brachial plexus hit and have seen knockouts from jaw strikes.

The target has to be at an exact angle,the strike must be exact and the pressure and direction must be right.

It is possible but I do not think it has been developed to the point of being reliable in actual confrontations.

[tlouis]

I have seen a Knockout from a palm heel strike to the forehead and I have seen knockouts from a Brachial plexus hit and have seen knockouts from jaw strikes.

The target has to be at an exact angle,the strike must be exact and the pressure and direction must be right.

  What was the force of the strike in these knockouts? A shot to the jaw or brachial plexus will knock a lot of people out wiht sufficient force. I wouldn't consider these pressure point type knockouts ala Dillman.

[JimH]

The palm heel to the forehead I watched was done while the person was seated and was delivered from 6-8 inches away,from a standing stricker,the blow was made with an upward strike with contact just above the browline driving the head back.

Many of these pressure point strikes of Dillmans,kyusho fitsu and others,use multiple strikes to a series of pressure point areas.Multiple strikes to varied points on or near a limb fool the body  by causing the body to believe it has been in an accident and a limb has been severly compromised,so blood pressure drops rapidly, to save the core, and the struck person drops.

It is true that the Brachial Plexus stun or strike is not one of the TV or demo  strikes,but it is a one strike knockout that also work do to a drop in Blood pressure.

Strikes to the jaw are part of Dillmans and others areas  to strike.

The vascular system of the neck is easiest to get to and does provide a possible one hit knockout,the other areas are harder and require angles of strike and all that which are not truely doable under pressure or through clothing and are not 100% effective so they are not good strike points.
The jaw is always a good strike area and maybe hit at the correct angle and pressure to cause a knockout.

If attacked I doubt many would be trying to see if they could get the correct series of strikes to drop the attacke,or that many would be crazy enough to try the one strike knockoutr.

My view is simple finish the encounter fast and get out.

[jpmbujutsu]

Well,
Have I got one for you.
Back in 1992 - 1993 I had the opportunity to train with George Dillman.
I went with a friend of mine who trained the instuctor hosting the seminar. Not in Dillmans stuff but Tang soo do. Dillman went around explaining kata's and their true application.
Then we got into the points. One Touch Knockouts..
Dillman went and knocked out 5 or so guys (Who were part of his association)
Then to my surprise my friend said try it on Jim.
(At the time I was training in the boxing gyms in Trenton NJ and Philiadelphia.
 Taking an asswhooping! on a daily basis.)
But never the less I was scared. I just saw this guy knock out several guys effortlessly.
Dillman places my head in just the right angle then with a shoto cracks me in the side of the jaw.
NOTHING HAPPENED.
Then Dillman sets my head again at the proper angle. This time he loads up a little bit more and
NOTHING HAPPENED
Now Dillman sets my head again. This time he winds up. I mean really winds up. His hand was practically in the next room.
 And this time.
IT TINGLED
This guy just got 3 clean stikes to my jaw for free and didn't even knock me backwards.
Probably if I only gave him another dozen or so I would have been knocked out.
I guess the shit can work in a laboratory

.

[Bri Thai]

What did he offer in explanation?

[jpmbujutsu]

I beleive he mumbled something to the effect that he really didn't want to hurt me or knock me out
because it might adversely effect me.

[JimH]

To me,people who believe that these techniques work allow them to work.

People who have been to these schools or seminars,willingly go down because they do not want to be hit over and over for an instructor or senior to make a point on them.

People who willingly allow themselves to be knocked down or out over and over make it a response  rather than soemthing to be avoided.

They are not developing resitance the more they are struck,to me, they make themselves more suseptible to being knocked down or out.

These are just my opinions from what I have observed.
I do not want to be knocked down or out to sell a product for someone,if I  get knocked out it will be  the Real Deal and it will have been from an error on my part,not for some demo.

[seanross]

What you are saying is that if I were to train with Mr. Dillman for long enough, I would be able to be knocked out with a light touch on my jaw.  Does he also teach blocking punches with your face as an advanced technique?  What about sh*tting my pants when faced with an attacker?  Is that on the 2nd Dan test?

Seriously, as I train longer, I want to be less vulnerable to attacks, not more.  Any training program which increases the trainees vulnerability to certain attacks in the name of high martial skill is to be avoided like the plague.  Any training program which uses psychology to render me more vulnerable is sick.  We use psychology to tell ourselves that we can keep on fighting after getting clobbered, not to tell outselves to pass out.

[jmech]

Funny someone mentioned how one-touch knockouts rank along with ice breaking-if I remeber correctly, Dillman's first TV appearance was on an old TV show called "That's Incredible" breaking Ice Slabs......

Just saw the show, they were also talking about "no touch knockouts".  Dillman and his crew were talking about "Chi Balls" and Chi blasts.  They also had Leon Jay and a few others demonstrating the no touch and one touch KOs.  Dillman gave a spiel about "you can put the biggest toughest guy in the world in front of me and I'll drop him to the floor" and several students talking about how after they've seen it demonstrated so many times they now believe in it.  Then they cut to other segements.  When they came back to the testing portion, they had a sceptic scientist stand there, and Leon Jay set up and fired his chi for about 30 seconds.  The scientist didn't feel a thing.  They then cut to Dillman for an explanation.  Dillman offered 3 reasons: 1) the scientist was a "nonbeliever"; 2) that the person could have had their tongue in the wrong place (he actually prefaced this by saying "I don't know if I should say this on TV"-should have followed that thought there.....); and 3) that the toes can actually work as a breaker, that if you have your right toe up and left toe down when he blasts you, then switch when he blasts you again, and keep switching for each blast, you will negate the effect.

Now this all comes several months after a Fox TV affiliate in Chicago went to a local Dillman affiliate instructor to test the one-touch KO.  After watching the mandatory KO demos, they took the head guy down the street to the local BJJ school to try it, and no one got KO'ed.  The instructor then said that the BJJ guys, being in good athlectic shape, had trained themselves to resist the blast.  He then tryed to KO the small female news reporter.  After the failed KO attempt, he asked the reporter if she felt it, to which she said "yeah, you hit me".

The worst thing about this kind of BS is that this is what people think about when you tell them you train/teach martial arts.  This is why people who really could benifit from good CQC training shy away from it and think its useless.  This is the crap image that we have to literally fight against if we want to introduce people to real MA training.  Can't we get these charletans to leave the no touch KOs to the Star Wars movies, and the real self-defense training to those of us who have some kind of clue about what we are talking about.

Joe

[Hock]

There are LOTS of these types of stories.

"Why can't Dillman just walk into the any UFC and tap-touch these insane fighters out in a sweatless victory?!" This question gets asked.

But, on this subject-there is a "story" by the faithful, that the top Gracies hired Dillman. In two long, private lessons the top-name brothers learned of the amazing powers and forever banned Dillman or any Dillman system people to fight in these...

Yeah, that is the story. It has such a charleton-esque feel to it.
But that is the story to the followers so they can keep the faith.
I had not heard of this Chicago episode....

I have endured many police pressure point courses since the 1980s and since it was me and some of my best friend detectives, there was a lot of horse-play and foolishness in some of those sessions, (we have played, no gear, tackle football on weekends so rough-housing was normal.) Tappy-tappy, touchy-touchy never seemed to worry work in the overall.

Any gorilla could smack a guy in the neck and knock him out. I never have considered that strike relagated to a Dillman-like system. But these multi-strike, meridian targets....?

Their true-belivers seem to drop like flies. Hypnotism? Expectations?

I have to tell you that one astute, outside observer/friend of mine saw a long demo once and true-belivers were tapped/knocked out-but the observer noted that the believers were using their hand and arm to break their fall on the way down-not something an unconscious person does...

In the late 80's, I was at a demo where Dillman viciously beat the neck of a young man to make him fall, failure after failure. It got ridiculous and he finally hit the young man so very hard that anyone could have knocked him out. The host, standing beside me, began to curse to me and said, "never again will I have this &%$%* in for a seminar!" The host was afriad he had almost killed the poor kid and that the host would be partly responsible.

Do you believe?
Must run,
Hock