Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Benjamin Liu]

That Dillman continues to get talked about is amazing and something that can only happen in the MA world.

Those types of people are everywhere.  In the alternative health field, there are things that work and things that don't.  One thing I've noticed is that many people, usually New Age types, will follow any fad as long as it is "alternative."  They don't care what is is, just being called "alternative" is enough.  An unethical person, even with no previous health knowledge, could easily make up his own "alternative health" program and become a successful guru if he knew how to market himself.

I was at a health fair once and some lady was selling a $70.00 red LED light that supposedly could heal people.  She tried it on my elbow, injured earlier by a joint lock, and needless to say it had no effect.  Another person was diagnosing people by "muscle testing," although waht she was doing was probably illegal since she was making a diagnosis without a medical license.

Of course most of us have seen one of the biggest fraudulent  self-defense teachings out there, the one they teach school children, that if you "ignore the bully he'll go away."  They taught that totally non-workable technigque when I was a kid, and probably long before.  Adult versions are those stupid passivist non-resistant things they teach in PC women's "self-defense" where they say to "give the attacker what he wants."

[juszczec]

Those types of people are everywhere.  In the alternative health field, there are things that work and things that don't.

Yeah, I spoke without thinking.  Although I don't have anything to do with the health care industry (alternative or otherwise) I've seen people attracted to something simply because it bills itself as "different".

My exposure to people who accept silliness such as Dillman's is confined to the MA industry.

Of course most of us have seen one of the biggest fraudulent  self-defense teachings out there, the one they teach school children, that if you "ignore the bully he'll go away."  They taught that totally non-workable technigque when I was a kid, and probably long before.  Adult versions are those stupid passivist non-resistant things they teach in PC women's "self-defense" where they say to "give the attacker what he wants."

I think its entirely situational.  Tell me ya want my lunch money and that's one thing.  Try and take it from me, that's another.  When I was a kid and a teen I did the "ignore the bully" thing.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.  I found it worked better when it was NOT my only option - ie I had the training (I thought) to make the bully want to ignore me if he chose not to.

I've also seen feigning capitulation taught as a way to get the attacker off their guard and create an opening. 

I don't think its all that great as the only tool in the toolbox, but I won't exclude it altogether.

Mark

[redfive]

 Well I realy feel shameless now, becouse Dillman knocked me out. First trained and met Remy in Houston back in 1993, and Wally and Dillman were there. My friend went because he wonted to train with Dillman. I did not wont anything to do with it. I hate pressure points, cant stand being  poked and proded. I also have 6% body fat and I'm rather boney. Pressure ponts work very well on me.  Anyway when it was Dillman's turn to teach he started to do his knockout deal. Asked who wonted to feel his energy. People started to hit the floor when he would touch them on the jaw. I told my friend that its a trick and bullshit. So I raised my hand and here he came.  He hit me on each side of my jaw, up underneeth it.  It was lights out for about two seconds. sat me right on my butt.  Only other time that happend to me was playing tether ball. Got wacked in the side of the face. anyway  a couple of years later I ran across Dillman...'s guys at a Wally training camp. Ed Blake or Lake, and Mark Kline. They used me for there dimo., because I was like a human road map for pressure points. Ed knocked me out with the single wip ( Tiji Chi move) . So does it work on everyone. No. Was I fighting back. No. Was it mentely in my head, that I wonted to go down? No. So is there something to the art and the science? I would say yes. Just as a Lot of you know when Wally would get you by the fingure and move you around with his palm only. Well all you have to do is pull away. Well I couldnt do it and havent seen anyone else do it. So under controled conditions it can work, but in the Caos that is CQC, maybe for a Jedi? That by the way is why I'm jumpy around Tom and Jeff Allen. They know some realy mean pressure points. And What workes on a normall person is amplified 5 fold on me. Hell Just haveing Hock come over and putting his hand on my shoulder gives me the shakes.

    ps. Dillan later explained it in great detail to me later that evenning, If anyone wonts to know, I'll try to explain it as he and Mark Kline did. I'm just to slow of a typer to do so know. Remy once Told My Formal Arnis instructor, Anding  De Leon , to whatch out for Dillamn " What he is doing is dangerous"
There have been several times were people had heart proplems later or could not be revived and medics hade to be called.
                                                                                                                      REDFIVE

[tcm_jedi]

there is no medical or scientific proof of pressure point fighting causing any long term damage

[Trainer]

show me the studies

[loyalonehk]

Ok,  Im going to throw in my retarded .2 C's   

Quick background...  I have met and spoke with and played a bit with Vince Black, Bob Machemier, George Dillman, Ed Lake and Mark Gerry.

I have also discussed PPT's with a couple Medical Providers that I work with from time to time. 

First, do they work? Yes.  Do they work on everyone, No. 

Second, long term damages.  Yes - if not done correct or with follow up work (ie Massage of other points Yin/Yang that sort of thing. 

I dont recomend every doing them on the elderly or someone that you know has preexisting medical conditions, etc.

If your gonig to play with em - do it with young healthy Uke (s).  Why?  The younger they are the more able the body is to heal itself internally.  As we get older the body has to work harder and also may have some underlying conditions (known or not).

The best way it was described to me in laymans terms was by Ron Pierce as follows:

Think of banging the PPT's over a vien or artery (ie HT 3, TW 23, ST 9, etc)  like banging the side of your cars tire against a curb.  The sidewall will weaken then sometimes develop a bubble on the side wall making it weaker until someday with enough stressors added the tire will blow out at the weakest spot.  Your body will act the same way as we get older and are not able to heal internally as quickly or with enough repeat banging at the same point we can have a blow out of the human form (ie burst blood vessels, or worse the blood clotting that has occured can break loose and clog an artery, etc)  *Think of the heart attack type commercials. 

I like to play with PPT's and nerve strikes, etc.  But only to a certain point (no pun intended).  They have there place but I dont take it to the level that some choose to.  Studying the PPT's and ways they work for both to heal and harm are interesting and help me to understand why and what I do.  In addition they give me reason to add precision to my strikes and like shooting - Im not just trying to hit the target, I want to get as close to the bullseye as possible.  Making my strikes more effective as a whole. 

Ok - gotta go back to work - catch ya later...

[loyalonehk]

there is no medical or scientific proof of pressure point fighting causing any long term damage

From personal experience.  When I was younger and liked to pound a lot, I had a signature strike I did a lot, that was to the inside of the bicep muscle (Set up with PC6 then hit Ht2) with a leopard fist strike or sometimes the thumb knuckle strike.  I did this to my (at the time - future Brother in-law) now brother in law maybe 15 yrs ago.  I did this repeatedly to him over a period of 2 yrs of training at random a coule time a week.  His arm has since then gone numb intermittenly and will not function without some stimuli.  It still goes numb to this day and we can only relate this to the strikes he took to his arm - Nerve Damage. 

To me, thats proof.  I have a few other people with similar experiences like this - I have since matured and become more educated on where and how to hit (or better yet - how not to hurt my training partners - long term)

Dean

[Ridgeback]

Hi, I just want to post a few links regarding the topic.

Here's the clip from National Geographic with George Dillman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-x4iJM2aU4&mode=related&search=

...and Tom Cameron from Dillman's school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar1yXYOsxQk&mode=related&search=

And as a sidenote, here's an interesting clip with Derren Brown performing a no-touch knock-out. Derren Brown is a kind of illusionist fusing suggestion, sleight of hand, NLP, hypnosis and other psychological methods to create really great shows with ordinary people. He does not claim to have any special powers, it's all about the mind.

I think a key for the no-touch KO to work is that the recipient accepts a certain model of reality, and that's why Derren goes straight to the Chinese martial arts group as in this clip. If they already accept the notion of chi projection and auras, the greater the chance it will work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvdktwS-byg

[Trainer]

What load of bollocks and parlor tricks, ive doing that to candles from aged 16 and it took me twenty minutes to learn. And that "master" needs a ruler to figure out what an inch is.

That said i have used the "one inch" sucker punch to great effect into the diaphram of the unsuspecting for many a moon now. Followed up with an elbow to the head as the they fold from having the wind driven out of them.

[tcm_jedi]

I'l be clear about it agian, Tom Cameron is and never was a Dillman student or affilliate

Hi, I just want to post a few links regarding the topic.

Here's the clip from National Geographic with George Dillman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-x4iJM2aU4&mode=related&search=

...and Tom Cameron from Dillman's school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar1yXYOsxQk&mode=related&search=

And as a sidenote, here's an interesting clip with Derren Brown performing a no-touch knock-out. Derren Brown is a kind of illusionist fusing suggestion, sleight of hand, NLP, hypnosis and other psychological methods to create really great shows with ordinary people. He does not claim to have any special powers, it's all about the mind.

I think a key for the no-touch KO to work is that the recipient accepts a certain model of reality, and that's why Derren goes straight to the Chinese martial arts group as in this clip. If they already accept the notion of chi projection and auras, the greater the chance it will work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvdktwS-byg

[Hock]

This coming up...

[Mesmeriser]

hahah this shit always cracks me up.
I havent read through the entire tread but did you ever consider that this is just hypnosis?
the students always seem to drop like flies, its  a learned responce either aquired by seeing it happen alot of times (demos) and buying it or by believing, ie this guy directly hypnotises you -- hes an authority in students world therefor can have a strong impact, he is very confident about this working and it comes through in his subcommunication  basicly he just installs believes the student is hypnotised and doesnt even know, he has a strong expectation that it will work.

reminds me of this youtube movie about a ''chi master'' this old guy w/ a beard would run around pointing at students and they would fall down. it was to funny!
im not sure if this really happened or that we were joking about it but i remember hearing or reading this guy actually tried proving his stuff by going up against some guy and got knocked the f out.
ahh man great stuff.

the thing that makes me sad though is that many people really buy into this.

by the way its my personal opinion that pressure points do exist they are just not realistic to train for use in combat from what i know it depends on the angles and pressure and stuff. anyway its magic pull bs anyway for all the boys and girls that just hate putting in real work you see the same kind of thing   everywhere

later,
Mes